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he-brew28

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I am currently waiting on my priming sugar to settle in my bottling bucket before I bottle.

This was my first all grain batch and I am going to relay a few difficulties I had and ask for suggestions. Designed to be a lemon honey wheat.

First the recipe:
6 lbs white wheat malt
4 lbs victory malt
1 lb wheat flakes
8 oz 20L crystal malt
1 lb honey at flameout
2 lemon zests at flameout
Cascade hops 2 oz (60,15,5 min)
Measured OG: 1.053
Measured FG: 1.008
Mashed 60 min @ 154

The difficulties:
Only 4 gallons at bottling time
Darker than I intended
More ABV than I intended

The mashing and boil went well. I obeyed all temperatures. I feel like I was within 1 degree the entire time. I boiled with atleast 6 gallons. I use a 6 gallon Carboy for primary and 5 gallon Carboy for secondary. I racked to secondary at 5 days (1.010) and bottling at 13 days (1.008). Bottling early due to tiny white bubbles on top, most likely due to too much headspace.

Let's hear em. Thanks! View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1429922792.223335.jpg
 
I must be missing something- why are you waiting for your "priming sugar to settle"? You don't want it to settle- you want it suspended in the beer I think.
 
I am currently waiting on my priming sugar to settle in my bottling bucket before I bottle.

Elaborate? You want your priming sugar in suspension, not settled out, when you bottle.


The difficulties:
Only 4 gallons at bottling time
Darker than I intended
More ABV than I intended

Getting your volumes down might take a few batches. Next time shoot for a 7gal pre-boil volume. Beer may also appear darker in the carboy than it will in a pint glass. As for the ABV, Id take more attenuation than less, but thats me. Try a higher mash temp next time you brew this recipe. Depending on your thermometer, it may need calibrated. Ive seen a number or thermos with highly fluctuating temp ranges.
 
Yooper, my last batch didn't carbonate well. I gently stirred this one and left it alone for a few minutes.
 
Only 4 gallons of 5 would make your OG higher. It will also make it a little bit darker. Work on your boil off rate. I have to start the boil with about 7.2 gallons to end up with 5.25 into the fermenter then 5 into the keg.

I would also suggest that you reach final gravity before transferring to secondary. I rarely do secondaries any more. They are really unnecessary unless you are adding something like fruit

Looking at your timeframe, the white spots you saw were probably yeast rafts.
 
Show us your bottling bucket (or equivalent.) You might consider having the priming sugar in the bottling bucket when you are racking it. That will give you a better mix.
 
two suggestions:
#1 If you are formulating your own recipes, get a 3 gallon carboy and do 2.5 gallon batches. It usually takes several revisions to get a new recipe where you want it to be. Once you get your ingredients and process dialed in, go with a 5 gallon or larger batch.
#2 your notes don't mention yeast , pitching temperature, or fermentation temperature(s).
Your fermentation is just as important as your malt bill and hops, and will make or break a good recipe and good brewing process.
 
I'm not going to address the "waiting on priming sugar to settle". I'm not sure what that is all about??

I just plugged your grain bill into BeerSmith. For a 5.5 gal batch @ 70% efficiency, I came up with a predicted OG of 1.060.

That assumes a total of 8.27 gal of water used for a post boil volume of 5.9 gal and a bottling volume of 5.1 gal. Of course that is accounting for my own equipment set-up. Yours will be different.

Point being, I suggest you get something to help you with volume calculations. In order to calculate the proper bottling volume, you have to work backwards. You have to take into account; mash thickness, grain absorption, equipment & trub losses in order to figure out your mash & sparge volumes.

It doesn't have to be BeerSmith software. There are other free SW programs and other sources and calculators out there to help. Check out; Homebrewacademy.com & BrewersFriend.com to start...

Good luck!
 
I would suggest a few procedural changes to make things easier

1: Bottling
Add priming sugar to bottling bucket (hot or cool doesn't matter)
Rack the beer from the FV to the bottling bucket with the hose coiled in the bottom of the bucket. This creates a gentle stirring of the beer and thorough mixing of the priming solution. DO NO ADDITIONAL STIRRING
Bottle from the bucket using a bottling wand

2: Secondary use
Don't bother with it. No benefit. Extra work and cleaning. Increase chances of oxidation and possibly infection.

3: Mash temperature.
Rather than feeling if its right, it's better to measure your strike temperature accurately and use online tools to calculate what the temperature should be based on a number of parameters
  • Material of mash tun
  • Temperature of mash tun
  • Grain temperature
  • Target temperature
Agood thermometer is useful

4: Measure your volumes
How much are you losing to
  • boil off
  • Trub loss in the kettle
  • Volume lost in any hoses
    These need to be added to the batch size to target your pre-boil volume correctly
  • Trub loss in the FV

There are many ways to help measure the volume in the kettle. Notched stick or dowel, sight glass or etched markings on the kettle.

Some things to consider before the next successful brew. Best of luck
 
Appreciate it all folks. Important things I am taking away from this is a better thermometer (suggestions for a good submersible digital??), software, no need for secondary ferment, and hell just to keep brewing! This was my 2nd brew and I don't think it will turn out too bad really.
 
For a Thermometer look at the Thermapen it is a great one if a little costly. My choice. A CDN ProAccurate (there are a couple varieties) thermometer is also good and less expensive. Both are probe digital thermometers.
 
For a Thermometer look at the Thermapen it is a great one if a little costly. My choice. A CDN ProAccurate (there are a couple varieties) thermometer is also good and less expensive. Both are probe digital thermometers.

I've used a long glass thermometer just like this one for many years and wouldn't ever trade it for a digital. I hang it in my fermentation room when I'm not brewing. Cost less than 10 bucks AND you can tie a string through the end of it to drop it down into your carboy or bucket when needed.

thermo_300.jpg
 
Yooper, my last batch didn't carbonate well. I gently stirred this one and left it alone for a few minutes.


I agree w/ Yooper. You need to stir in your priming solution. When I do bottle I even stir the beer/sugar about every 6 bottles to make sure it doesn't settle to the bottom & give me uneven carb
 
Appreciate it all folks. Important things I am taking away from this is a better thermometer (suggestions for a good submersible digital??), software, no need for secondary ferment, and hell just to keep brewing! This was my 2nd brew and I don't think it will turn out too bad really.


Look for a Cooper-Atkins. It has a long probe, fairly rapid response, good accuracy & price. Also durable. I've had mine in constant use for 4+ years.
 
I agree w/ Yooper. You need to stir in your priming solution. When I do bottle I even stir the beer/sugar about every 6 bottles to make sure it doesn't settle to the bottom & give me uneven carb

I think you have misunderstood @yooper

Stirring the beer and priming sugar is not recommended other than via the method I described earlier in the thread. This is the method described by many. It is not a new idea. A gentle mixing of the two liquids during the racking process is all that's needed.

I know lots of folks advocate stirring but I really don't see the rationale. A complete homogenous mixing is all that's needed. This is achieved in the manner I describe.
 
Learning to do all grain is not hard to do on your own, but sitting in on a brew session with an experienced brewer would make it easier/quicker to learn.
You might want to check if there is a LHBS near you that is going to do a public all grain brew session for the big brew day coming up on May 2.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/aha-events/national-homebrew-day/big-brew-events/

Keep on trying you will get, just dont forget to take a bunch of notes of your brew sessions. It will help you lock down your process.
 
I think you have misunderstood @yooper

Stirring the beer and priming sugar is not recommended other than via the method I described earlier in the thread. This is the method described by many. It is not a new idea. A gentle mixing of the two liquids during the racking process is all that's needed.

I know lots of folks advocate stirring but I really don't see the rationale. A complete homogenous mixing is all that's needed. This is achieved in the manner I describe.

In my experience, the priming sugar settles during bottling and I get unevenly carbed bottles. I've never tracked the bottles based on the order of filling, but uneven carb is a consistent problem and the dregs in the bottling bucket are always way sweeter than they would be without settling of the priming sugar. It may have something to do with using table sugar rather than corn sugar as the granulation is larger (especially in China), but I would think that wouldn't be an issue once the sugar is dissolved. Anyway, the point is that stirring occasionally has helped, but not eliminated the issue; that's just in my personal experience and process.

This last brew I actually calculated my priming sugar by the bottle, measured on a scale with resolution down to the tenth of a gram, and primed the bottles individually with granulated sugar, filling directly from the spigot on the fermenting bucket rather than transferring to a bottling bucket. If the results are more consistent, I think I'm going to try priming solution (agitated pretty much constantly) and a syringe next time, since measuring by milliliters in a syringe would be way faster than measuring by grams on a scale.
 
I've used a long glass thermometer just like this one for many years and wouldn't ever trade it for a digital. I hang it in my fermentation room when I'm not brewing. Cost less than 10 bucks AND you can tie a string through the end of it to drop it down into your carboy or bucket when needed.

thermo_300.jpg


I have one of those also. My main reason for not using it is that it is just way too slow to settle in on the temperature.
 
I agree w/ Yooper. You need to stir in your priming solution. When I do bottle I even stir the beer/sugar about every 6 bottles to make sure it doesn't settle to the bottom & give me uneven carb


Yooper said that you don't want the priming sugar to settle. Meaning why would you wait on it.

Once the solution has been mixed in it will not settle. If you set up your siphon it the bottom of the bottling bucket around the perimeter the swirling action will mix the solution in with no stirring.

If you stir too much you risk oxidizing the beer.
 
In my experience, the priming sugar settles during bottling and I get unevenly carbed bottles. I've never tracked the bottles based on the order of filling, but uneven carb is a consistent problem and the dregs in the bottling bucket are always way sweeter than they would be without settling of the priming sugar. It may have something to do with using table sugar rather than corn sugar as the granulation is larger (especially in China), but I would think that wouldn't be an issue once the sugar is dissolved. Anyway, the point is that stirring occasionally has helped, but not eliminated the issue; that's just in my personal experience and process.

This last brew I actually calculated my priming sugar by the bottle, measured on a scale with resolution down to the tenth of a gram, and primed the bottles individually with granulated sugar, filling directly from the spigot on the fermenting bucket rather than transferring to a bottling bucket. If the results are more consistent, I think I'm going to try priming solution (agitated pretty much constantly) and a syringe next time, since measuring by milliliters in a syringe would be way faster than measuring by grams on a scale.


It sounds like you are not getting the sugar dissolved into the solution before adding it to the bottling bucket. I had only one batch that carbed unevenly. I stirred the next one and it was even. I never stirred one since. They have all carbed evenly.

Priming bottles individually, IMO, it the best way to get uneven carbonation. It is too hard to measure the small amount for each bottle accurately.
 
Yooper said that you don't want the priming sugar to settle. Meaning why would you wait on it.

Once the solution has been mixed in it will not settle. If you set up your siphon it the bottom of the bottling bucket around the perimeter the swirling action will mix the solution in with no stirring.

If you stir too much you risk oxidizing the beer.

Yea that's the method of mixing. I meant no stirring in addition to that. Looks like we are singing from the same hymn sheet. I misunderstood.

I don't stir when I have bottled. I allow the fluids to mix during racking with a coil of tubing in the bottom of the bucket. Never a problem with carbonation being consistent regardless of sugar used.
 
In my experience, the priming sugar settles during bottling and I get unevenly carbed bottles. I've never tracked the bottles based on the order of filling, but uneven carb is a consistent problem and the dregs in the bottling bucket are always way sweeter than they would be without settling of the priming sugar. It may have something to do with using table sugar rather than corn sugar as the granulation is larger (especially in China), but I would think that wouldn't be an issue once the sugar is dissolved. Anyway, the point is that stirring occasionally has helped, but not eliminated the issue; that's just in my personal experience and process.

This last brew I actually calculated my priming sugar by the bottle, measured on a scale with resolution down to the tenth of a gram, and primed the bottles individually with granulated sugar, filling directly from the spigot on the fermenting bucket rather than transferring to a bottling bucket. If the results are more consistent, I think I'm going to try priming solution (agitated pretty much constantly) and a syringe next time, since measuring by milliliters in a syringe would be way faster than measuring by grams on a scale.

Don't just add dry sugar to the bottling bucket. Make a simple syrup by boiling your sugar in two cups of water for 5 minutes. Put it into the bottling bucket first then rack the beer on top. That should be plenty of mixing to get the beer into the bottles with an even priming solution. Unless you're taking 6 hours to fill 48 bottles.
 
I think you have misunderstood @yooper

Stirring the beer and priming sugar is not recommended other than via the method I described earlier in the thread. This is the method described by many. It is not a new idea. A gentle mixing of the two liquids during the racking process is all that's needed.

I know lots of folks advocate stirring but I really don't see the rationale. A complete homogenous mixing is all that's needed. This is achieved in the manner I describe.

I've never stirred my priming sugar and beer, ever.

When I rack, I lay the tubing in a circle on the bottom of the bottling bucket, add the priming sugar solution, and rack. Since the tubing is in a circle pattern, the beer fills from the bottom and gently swirls as the bucket fills, and then I immediately bottle. I would never recommend stirring, and never have done so myself.
 
I would suggest a few procedural changes to make things easier

1: Bottling
Add priming sugar to bottling bucket (hot or cool doesn't matter)
Rack the beer from the FV to the bottling bucket with the hose coiled in the bottom of the bucket. This creates a gentle stirring of the beer and thorough mixing of the priming solution. DO NO ADDITIONAL STIRRING
Bottle from the bucket using a bottling wand
[*

I've never stirred my priming sugar and beer, ever.

When I rack, I lay the tubing in a circle on the bottom of the bottling bucket, add the priming sugar solution, and rack. Since the tubing is in a circle pattern, the beer fills from the bottom and gently swirls as the bucket fills, and then I immediately bottle. I would never recommend stirring, and never have done so myself.

Glad I didn't misrepresent your methods. I have read quite a few of your posts on this topic. It seems to be a common error to needlessly stir. Your posts are held in high regard by many, myself included and I hope I was not out of line in suggesting you had been misunderstood. Thanks for chiming in.
 
But when I am measuring my mash temperatures I want the answer in a few seconds not minutes........

They don't take minutes, you are exaggerating. Those expensive little digital thermometers are just a gadget for "tools". Not needed at all for brewing and especially not needed for grilling meat. Meaning that I still wouldn't buy one, even if I won the lottery.
 
Don't just add dry sugar to the bottling bucket. Make a simple syrup by boiling your sugar in two cups of water for 5 minutes. Put it into the bottling bucket first then rack the beer on top. That should be plenty of mixing to get the beer into the bottles with an even priming solution. Unless you're taking 6 hours to fill 48 bottles.

It sounds like you are not getting the sugar dissolved into the solution before adding it to the bottling bucket. I had only one batch that carbed unevenly. I stirred the next one and it was even. I never stirred one since. They have all carbed evenly.

Priming bottles individually, IMO, it the best way to get uneven carbonation. It is too hard to measure the small amount for each bottle accurately.

It's possible that I'm not dissolving my sugar adequately - I boil water then pour it over my measured priming sugar and stir for a minute or two until the granules have all dissolved, but maybe it still hasn't diffused fully throughout the solution. Racking to the bottling bucket, I use the same move as all of you - tubing coiled around the bottom of the bottling bucket, priming solution already in place when I start racking.

I stopped boiling priming sugar after my second or third brew because it was a bigger pain than just stirring the sugar into boiled water, and I got myself in the doghouse when I accidentally forgot about some priming sugar on the stove and ended up with a smoky, black mess that my wife hated even more than I did.

As for priming directly in the bottles,, I measured out 1.6g in the 330mL bottles and 2.4g in the 500mL bottles (calculated specifically for that particular batch) using a scale that resolves to the tenth of a gram. I'm sure there will be a 5% swing here and there between bottles, but I've had gushers and undercarbed bottles from the same batch with the sugar in solution, so having one bottle carb to 2.3 volumes and another carb to 2.4 isn't quite as big an issue.

In my next few brews, I'll try priming sugar in a syringe for quicker bottle-by-bottle priming in one batch and boiling the sugar in solution for a few minutes and adding to a bottling bucket as usual with another and see how they go. I expect that the bottle-by-bottle dry sugar priming I did with my last batch will be pretty consistent, but it took quite a while, so I'd rather not make that my new standard method.
 
Is the Victory malt providing all the enzymes for the starch conversion in the mash? I was not aware it had that much diastatic power. I thought wheat needed help converting. I have only ever used a small amount of torrified wheat so have no experience with it as the main backbone of the grist.
 
Is the Victory malt providing all the enzymes for the starch conversion in the mash? I was not aware it had that much diastatic power. I thought wheat needed help converting. I have only ever used a small amount of torrified wheat so have no experience with it as the main backbone of the grist.

Malted wheat is actually some of the hottest (most diastatic) malt out there. Victory is toasted enough that it has no enzymes left. The flaked wheat and crystal won't convert themselves either, but with luck there should be enough enzymes in the wheat malt.
 
It's possible that I'm not dissolving my sugar adequately - I boil water then pour it over my measured priming sugar and stir for a minute or two until the granules have all dissolved, but maybe it still hasn't diffused fully throughout the solution. Racking to the bottling bucket, I use the same move as all of you - tubing coiled around the bottom of the bottling bucket, priming solution already in place when I start racking.

I stopped boiling priming sugar after my second or third brew because it was a bigger pain than just stirring the sugar into boiled water, and I got myself in the doghouse when I accidentally forgot about some priming sugar on the stove and ended up with a smoky, black mess that my wife hated even more than I did.

The sugar needs to be boiled for a few minutes to completely break down the bonds which helps hold it in solution.

If you're dead set on doing a per-bottle priming charge, use Fizz Drops. I've found them to give very consistent results.
 
They don't take minutes, you are exaggerating. Those expensive little digital thermometers are just a gadget for "tools". Not needed at all for brewing and especially not needed for grilling meat. Meaning that I still wouldn't buy one, even if I won the lottery.

If the lab thermometer works for you, great.

Yes, I exaggerate a little. But for me it is well worth the price for the speed.
And well worth the money. There are now cheaper and still fast alternatives to the Thermapen.
 
I got a thermopen as a gift and honestly it is worth it's price to me.
I hated the constant fluctuation in temperature on my other digital thermometer and disliked my floating glass one for accuracy and ease. To me, the thermapen is a wonderful luxury upgrade. But to each their own
 
The sugar needs to be boiled for a few minutes to completely break down the bonds which helps hold it in solution.

If you're dead set on doing a per-bottle priming charge, use Fizz Drops. I've found them to give very consistent results.

I'll definitely boil my priming sugar for a couple minutes, then. That's probably the main source of my bottling bucket issues.

Priming drops aren't available (that I know of) in China, but I don't think I would use them anyway - they're way more expensive than a bit of sugar (even though that's all most of them are) and you can't customize them to a certain carbonation level.

My thinking is if I can find a way to prime in the bottle fairly quickly, and accurately (the syringe method should qualify if I can get it working), I can avoid the extra oxygenation and slight infection risk of racking to the bottling bucket. The time taken to prime the bottles will balance with the time normally spent racking to the bottling bucket, and I won't have to clean the bottling bucket afterwards, so it should be an overall plus in terms of time investment (less cleaning) and quality of the finished product (less racking and oxygen in the process).
 
The sugar needs to be boiled for a few minutes to completely break down the bonds which helps hold it in solution.

.


I'm sorry, I have always thought once it is dissolved and in solution the sugar will disperse rapidly and easily throughout the solution. What "bonds" are these you speak of?
 
I got a thermopen as a gift and honestly it is worth it's price to me.

Well, yeah, the price was right ;-)

But having one won't make you a better brewer nor will it make you a better griller. It's like buying a 3-piece custom made pool cue before you're able to run the table with any old crooked house cue - the custom cue won't allow you to run the table and when you are able to run the table with a crooked house cue then you realise that a custom cue isn't needed, it's just a prop.
 
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