Petite Farmhouse Recipe Critique (TYB)

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

BGBC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
4,996
Reaction score
1,677
Location
Montclair, NJ
I'm looking to brew a tart/funky petite saison for the summer.

Target OG: 1.036

Grain Bill:
40% Pils
40% MO
15% Wheat
5% Vienna

Mash on the high end (155?)

Yeast:
TYB Farmhouse Sour
TYB Beersel Brett Blend

Hops:
No hops in the boil
Plan to dry hop prior to bottling (2-3 month primary)

I'm open to any ideas/feedback on this plan. My main concern is making a beer that still has good character at this low ABV%, hence the MO/Vienna and higher mash temp. I'm not too worried about it drying out based on the low OG and the yeast blends being used.

Open questions:
- When to pitch the Brett? Pitch on day 1 or wait a week or two?
- Pitch the whole vial of Beersel? Or half?
- Hop variety for dry hopping
 
I usually just pitch brett in primary and let it go. I think waiting for secondary might be the more traditional method. Regardless, you'll get good results from both.

I think TYB does small cell count so I would pitch the whole thing.

For dry hops - what are your favorite hops and what flavor profile are you hoping to achieve?
 
Ditch the mo, up the pils and vienna. Saison character comes from the yeast and fermentation control. I'd go 70/15/15.

Now if you add the brett it'll be a great summer beer....next year. Itll be nowhere near being done this summer. You could drink it, but you'd be selling your beer short.

The farmhouse sour, can probably be done this summer, no brett. Id still put some hops in the boil. Keep it to 10ibu at 60. Dry hop it strongly before packaging. I suggest 3-5oz per 5gal. I did a very similar beer last summer (gigayeast sour saison,same concept saison yeast + lacto) I dry hopped with 4oz of Nelson for 12 days, very happy. Doing another similar beer once that kegs gone, but using el dorado, meridian and equinox. I also did a collaboration with a brewery a few weeks ago using TYB FS, in a tequila barrel, we are going to dry hop with motueka, hull melon and maybe another. SO....personally i think you're on the right track with your idea.

Oh, mash low, like any saison. The lacto will do iits work rather fast, no need to pile dextrin on, really. Unless you add brett, but at the same time a little malto dextrin would do the trick. Just remember if you add brett its next summer's session
 
Oh, the farmhouse sour would be fine to pitch alone. If you do choose the brett, add it all at once. The cell counts are lower, so you couldn't primary as the sole yeast, but that isn't a problem.

Another option, use TYB saison-brett, and also pitch a vial of lacto brevis (gigayeast fast souring lacto if you can get it) I found the saison brett actually moved very fast and was tasty in 6 months. Into developed more over time, but it was very funky and tasty in short order.
 
I'm planning to brew this with a friend, on his system. He has a sack of MO on hand, and that was the main reason for including some in the grist initially. It's just a few pounds for a small beer like this though, so I'm fine dropping it and might go with your 70/15/15 recommendation.

I've been looking around for similar recipes and found this: Goatpants

Pretty similar process overall. Small beer, no hops in boil, Saison/Lacto/Brett pitched up front, 3 month primary, dry hop on the end. He also mashed low (150) and since I'm going for a quicker turnaround, I'll aim for that too.

I have a hard time believing a small beer like this won't reach a stable FG in 3 months or so, Brett or no Brett. I'm sure the beer will change over the course of time in the bottle due to the Brett and some will definitely be set aside to monitor those changes. Maybe it will be a fall beer at this point though (3 month primary + min 2 months in bottle).
 
It's still hot in most places sep-oct, so that's probably an easy aiming point. You could always get the brett going in a starter to bulk up your numbers and maybe get faster action. With a low mash you aren't leaving a lotfor the brett to consume, so you might just stabilize quick. Granted the flavors will continue to develop whether there's anything left to ferment or not. Really, this is very similar to how Jolly Pumpkin goes about beer...low mash, fast finish....let the flavors develop bottled, over time. Plus brett works faster under pressure....just make sure it's very, very dry. I wouldn't bottle above .04-.06 Personally.
 
Now if you add the brett it'll be a great summer beer....next year. Itll be nowhere near being done this summer. You could drink it, but you'd be selling your beer short.

I've gotten great brett character after only 3-4 months. I think if you pitched brett along with the saison yeast you'd be able to get some good funk already.
 
Ditch the mo, up the pils and vienna. Saison character comes from the yeast and fermentation control. I'd go 70/15/15.

Now if you add the brett it'll be a great summer beer....next year. Itll be nowhere near being done this summer. You could drink it, but you'd be selling your beer short.

The farmhouse sour, can probably be done this summer, no brett. Id still put some hops in the boil. Keep it to 10ibu at 60. Dry hop it strongly before packaging. I suggest 3-5oz per 5gal. I did a very similar beer last summer (gigayeast sour saison,same concept saison yeast + lacto) I dry hopped with 4oz of Nelson for 12 days, very happy. Doing another similar beer once that kegs gone, but using el dorado, meridian and equinox. I also did a collaboration with a brewery a few weeks ago using TYB FS, in a tequila barrel, we are going to dry hop with motueka, hull melon and maybe another. SO....personally i think you're on the right track with your idea.

Oh, mash low, like any saison. The lacto will do iits work rather fast, no need to pile dextrin on, really. Unless you add brett, but at the same time a little malto dextrin would do the trick. Just remember if you add brett its next summer's session

If you want it to sour faster, I'd keep the IBU at 1-2. 10 IBU may slow things down. Most of our evaluation batches of Farmhouse Sour Ale and Melange were 3-5 IBU max.
 
Here's the current revised plan, hope to brew it up this weekend. I'm planning to do a small (.5 L) combined starter of the Farmhouse Sour and Beersel just to wake things up:

Target OG: 1.036

Grain Bill:
70% Pils
15% Wheat
15% Vienna

Mash on the low end (150)

Yeast:
TYB Farmhouse Sour
TYB Beersel Brett Blend

Hops:
No hops in the boil (0 IBU)
Dry hop prior to bottling (~3 month primary)
 
We brewed this up on Saturday. As mentioned, it was brewed at a friend's house. It's tough brewing on someone else's system, and he gets notoriously low efficiency for some reason. I tried to account for that in the grain bill, but we ended up overshooting on volume, which brought the OG back down.

Anyway, the final product came in around 1.030 and we had a gallon of extra wort. We split it into two growlers and are each pitching different dregs to see how the three versions compare. I reboiled my split, added a little DME, and steeped some oats to get it up to 1.042. Then pitched WY1335, and various dregs (Fantome, JP, etc).

And now we wait.
 
btw, the starter beer of the Farmhouse Sour and Beersel Brett smelled AMAZING. Juicy tart citrus. If the final product is anything like that, I'll be happy.
 
btw, the starter beer of the Farmhouse Sour and Beersel Brett smelled AMAZING. Juicy tart citrus. If the final product is anything like that, I'll be happy.

The Beersel is definitely very fruit forward and bright with very little funkiness. I was at Cellarmaker in SF last Thursday helping Tim S. prop some up for an upcoming project. Very excited for the results from the 10 bbl batch he'll be using it on!
 
I have been thinking about doing a "table" sour like this. Looking forward to seeing the results, maybe tasting them as well? :D

BTW, how is the RU55 coming along?
 
I made a similar table saison, and while it was good, it was too light.

I had a beer from Transmitter brewery in NYC that was a grisette, essentially a table saison. They used oats to up the body and it was awesome. I plan on using oats in my next table saison along with different hops (i used hallertau blanc, which weren't a great choice while not bad).
 
I have been thinking about doing a "table" sour like this. Looking forward to seeing the results, maybe tasting them as well? :D

BTW, how is the RU55 coming along?

Yes, definitely. The RU55 is hanging out. I haven't pulled a sample in a while, probably won't until bottling. The curent plan is to bottle both batches together, sometime this summer (July?).

I made a similar table saison, and while it was good, it was too light.

I had a beer from Transmitter brewery in NYC that was a grisette, essentially a table saison. They used oats to up the body and it was awesome. I plan on using oats in my next table saison along with different hops (i used hallertau blanc, which weren't a great choice while not bad).

I really like Transmitter, but I didn't get to try that one. I would visit them more often if their brewery was more inviting. Basically a small taste of whatever 3 bottles are available and you're out the door.

Hopefully the full batch doesn't turn out too thin, but I'm interested in comparing the extra half gallon splits (mine w/ added steeped oats should be pretty different).
 
Yes, definitely. The RU55 is hanging out. I haven't pulled a sample in a while, probably won't until bottling. The curent plan is to bottle both batches together, sometime this summer (July?).



I really like Transmitter, but I didn't get to try that one. I would visit them more often if their brewery was more inviting. Basically a small taste of whatever 3 bottles are available and you're out the door.

Hopefully the full batch doesn't turn out too thin, but I'm interested in comparing the extra half gallon splits (mine w/ added steeped oats should be pretty different).

Never been, but my brother is a member and sends me a few every now and then. I would say I liked it more than Jester King Petite Prince.
 
I isolated 4 unique looking colonies from RU55 about a year ago but never had time to play with them. I should streak out the cell stocks and get busy!
 
btw, the starter beer of the Farmhouse Sour and Beersel Brett smelled AMAZING. Juicy tart citrus. If the final product is anything like that, I'll be happy.

Sounds great. I was going to pitch Beersel to finish off a hoppy pale ale w Vermont yeast that didn't attenuate fully then dry hop( Brett APA ) but now Im rethinking things. Guess I'l have to grow it up and do both!
 
I pitched the Beersel, Lochristi and Brussels Blends independent of one another each onto one gallon secondaries of lower hopped pale ale I fermented with Vermont Ale. Beersel was definitely my favorite. Very bright flavors with a little bit of the peach esters remaining.
 
I pitched the Beersel, Lochristi and Brussels Blends independent of one another each onto one gallon secondaries of lower hopped pale ale I fermented with Vermont Ale. Beersel was definitely my favorite. Very bright flavors with a little bit of the peach esters remaining.

Excellent. Do you remember how long you let them go before drinking? Im thinking 6 weeks. Want sone brett but not too much. Taste will tell.
 
So about 7 weeks in, at what point do you anticipate you'll start to monitor this for signs it's finished?
 
Gotcha. This post on Dellinger's page makes me wonder just how quickly a brew like this could be turned around.

goatpants timeline.JPG
 
Excellent. Do you remember how long you let them go before drinking? Im thinking 6 weeks. Want sone brett but not too much. Taste will tell.

I left it for a few months, but that was only because I didn't have a free second in the day to bottle them. I'd simply go by gravity for time to bottling. The beers will continue to develop in the bottle at room temperature.
 
Was able to pull a small sample of this today and it's coming along nicely. Very tart, light, not much evident funk, maybe some on the aroma. Good dose of dry hops should round it out nicely.
 
I left it for a few months, but that was only because I didn't have a free second in the day to bottle them. I'd simply go by gravity for time to bottling. The beers will continue to develop in the bottle at room temperature.

Excellent. Racked this over last night and added brett. Will check in 6-8 weeks. No more bottling for me. Butt brett will keep going in the keg. Even cold.
Cheers!
 
Been able to check on this lately? Would love to hear how it's coming along.
 
Butt brett will keep going in the keg. Even cold.
Cheers!
sure, but very, very, very slowly. like, it'll take a year to do cold what it could do in a few weeks warm. unless you're going to store the beer cold from an extended period of time, keeping brett under 40*F should effectively stop it.
 
sure, but very, very, very slowly. like, it'll take a year to do cold what it could do in a few weeks warm. unless you're going to store the beer cold from an extended period of time, keeping brett under 40*F should effectively stop it.

Ok. Still in carboy but will taste this weekend see where its at. I have heard from others that brett keeps developing even cold. Makes sense that kinetics will slow w temp decrease. My guess is keg will be all gone too soon to time it properly. I want to dry hop it heavily and then tap. Was hoping it would be done in time for an upcoming comp but if not I'll just wait then dry hop then drink.
 
The Beersel is definitely very fruit forward and bright with very little funkiness. I was at Cellarmaker in SF last Thursday helping Tim S. prop some up for an upcoming project. Very excited for the results from the 10 bbl batch he'll be using it on!

Hows the Cellarmaker being coming along? Is it in bbls now?
 
Hows the Cellarmaker being coming along? Is it in bbls now?


Good I think! Tim said its coming along and I believe it recently went into barrels, though not a huge amount of Brett character development yet. Was supposed to get over to Cellarmaker to grab something else last week and was excited to taste, but got busy with preparation for an interview and some other things. I'll definitely make it over this week, and I'll let you know how it's tasting!
 
Good I think! Tim said its coming along and I believe it recently went into barrels, though not a huge amount of Brett character development yet. Was supposed to get over to Cellarmaker to grab something else last week and was excited to taste, but got busy with preparation for an interview and some other things. I'll definitely make it over this week, and I'll let you know how it's tasting!


Awesome. Will be in San Fran area in near future. Missed Cellarmaker last spring so have to make it there this time.
 
Awesome. Will be in San Fran area in near future. Missed Cellarmaker last spring so have to make it there this time.

Hell ya, do it. Tim and Connor are doing great things.

I was actually up at Rare Barrel on Tuesday chatting with Jay and we tasted through a couple barrels of their golden base fermented with the Farmhouse Sour Ale. They were delicious and souring well in spite of being relatively young. Excited to taste the finished product!
 
Hell ya, do it. Tim and Connor are doing great things.

I was actually up at Rare Barrel on Tuesday chatting with Jay and we tasted through a couple barrels of their golden base fermented with the Farmhouse Sour Ale. They were delicious and souring well in spite of being relatively young. Excited to taste the finished product!


That's awesome.
 
Looking good! Mine's about three weeks in the bottle and not ready yet.
 
Bottled yesterday. Huge aroma, filled the room while racking. The hop flavor muted the sourness that was there in the sample a few weeks ago, but you could still pick it up. Should be great once it's carbed up.

FG 1.002
 

Latest posts

Back
Top