Party guile question

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Kirkwooder

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I am looking to brew an IPA that uses 11# of pale 2 row and 1# of caramel 40l, and a Rye ale that calls for 6.25# pale 2 row 1.75# rye and .75# caramel 40l. I was thinking that i could maybe save some $$$ and brew these two beers together, one the first day and one the next, using some of the same grain and doing a party guile mash.

The IPA is supposed to have an OG of 1.064 and the rye is supposed to start at 1.050.

Can I somehow put the two together and save a few bucks on grain? Would it be alright to brew one the first day and save the spent grain overnight and reuse it the next day?

IPA
11# 2 row pale malt
1 # caramel 40L
Mashed @ 152* for 60 min.
mash out @170* for 10 min.

Rye Ale
6.25#2 row pale malt
1.75# rye malt
.40# caramel 40L
mashed @152 for 60 min.
mash out 170* for 10 min.
 
Partigyle works best with a very large beer where you expect low efficiency and a smaller beer. I don't think you'll experience much savings by using this technique with beers so close in gravity.
 
This is interesting, I think making a bigger pale ale,say around1.070 with first runnings at ~4-5 gal. then thin that with water to ~ 1.050 and boil down to 1.064. In the meantime heat water to what ever temp you need to raise the mash tun temp to 156* after capping it with the rye malt. wrap the tun up in plastic wrap and blankets and mash overnight. I will be doing this on the 24th.
 
It's possible. I did a Schwarzbier and Black IPA this way. 1.045 / 1.060 respectively I believe. I found it best to mash, pull out what you think is the first and second runnings, measure, and blend if needed. I think I actually ended up having to add water to both of these to get them down.

I wouldn't leave the grains over night. I make bread with the spent grains and I let it rise overnight once and it was pretty sour.

Also, if you don't want your IPA to have Rye, consider holding out the Rye at the mash and steep it in the boil. I like doing this because you can really make 2 completely different beers with 1 mash.
 
I ended up brewing them separate this time, but I keep both these beers in my rotation regularly. I have been thinking I could mash the IPA as usual and ad an extra couple pounds or so of 2 row and the 1.75# rye and maybe even a couple ounces of 40L, and then do an over night mash for the rye.

What do you think?
 
I have been thinking I could mash the IPA as usual and ad an extra couple pounds or so of 2 row and the 1.75# rye and maybe even a couple ounces of 40L, and then do an over night mash for the rye.
What do you think?
I would run the numbers but my shoot from the hip answer is that it would work to get a 3 gallon Rye as second runnings with at least 3+pounds of a "cap" (2 row + rye).
You need more grain (I think) for decent OG @ 5gallons.
 
I ended up brewing them separate this time, but I keep both these beers in my rotation regularly. I have been thinking I could mash the IPA as usual and ad an extra couple pounds or so of 2 row and the 1.75# rye and maybe even a couple ounces of 40L, and then do an over night mash for the rye.

What do you think?

You could most definitely do this. Capping the mash with extra grain for the second beer is always a great idea. Also, you might want to consider boiling the second beer longer in hopes to avoid a thin watery beer (which always happens to me on the 2nd even with capping extra grain on top).

This table isn't exact but certainly puts you in the ballpark in terms of splitting huge mashes in half or 3rds estimating SRMs and gravities.

http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue2.2/moshertable.html

I just got done doing a barleywine/dipa partigyle that seems pretty promising on both ends. Bwine ended up at 1.100 and the dipa was at 1.056 before the sugar addition which put me at 1.070ish. This worked out better for me than past ones because I kept the sparge amounts the same as a regular batch would be, just used a massive mash tun to mash 40 lbs of grain in and sparged as normal. Some mixing and watering down was done but very limited. That chart really is a HUGE help to get you moving in the right direction. That and a refractometer is very necessary to grab gravity readings and adjust on the fly.
 
If anything I would like to run 2, 5 gallon beers, but wouldn't be opposed to doing 3 gallons of the IPA and 5 gallons of the rye. I seem to go through a bit more of the rye anyway.

I'm thinking that if I run the full 11# of 2 row and 1# 40L of the IPA, and draw off the first 4 gallons for the IPA boil, and then top the mash with 2# 2 row and 1 3/4# rye and 1/2 # 40L and re-mash, and run off another 7 1/2 gallons for the rye boil. I may have to only run like 3 gallons and top off with water to hit the 1.060 for the IPA or hold the boil and ad the last gallon from a 3rd running.

I don't really know how to figure out the recipe amounts, and it seems that I'm not alone. Looks like that is the topic of the article above. By doing all this I really don't see enough of a savings to make it worth while. I'm only cutting out a few pounds of 2 row. It seems that I'd be saving just a few dollars and ending up with only half a batch of the IPA.
 
That's the only deal breaker with partigyles, imo. It makes things very difficult to specifically nail down a repeatable recipe. You can certainly get in the ball park from your initial mash and adding whatever you capped with but it never comes out the same.

Go for the extra 2 row, your completely right, you only save a couple bucks in reality for gallons less beer.

If you have a refractometer you might want to try and use some of the very first runnings in your second beer to try and keep a consistent sugar profile between both beers. food for thought!
 
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