Does anyone start to heat up their first runnings while they are batch sparging?

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scottballz

scottballz

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The title says it all but, Does anyone start to heat up their first runnings, for the boil, while they are batch sparging?
 
Yes. I apply a very low heat to my BK while I let my sparge water sit for about ten minutes. Then I Vorlauf & begin draining my MLT into my BK. at this point I crank the heat up & I'm usually boiling in 10-15 minutes (7.5-8gal).
 
Awesome!!! Thank you for the quick response. I'm brewing right now and didn't know if it was good or bad
 
I fire the burner during first runnings as well. I generally sparge with cold water, so I want to get a jump on raising the temp toward boil sooner rather than later.
 
Yes. I fire them once I start the pump to vorlauf the sparge. Timing it this way means my wort is at about 200 degrees by the time I empty and clean the mash tun so I can be there to watch for boil overs and make necessary adjustments.
 
Yup. I do it every time.

With doing 6.5 or 7 gallon boils in an 8 gallon kettle, I can avoid boilovers by getting through the hot break of the first runnings while sparging. Then I add it all together and I'm off to the races.
 
I brewed a scottish export ale that called for boiling the first runnings separatly for 20 minutes prior to adding the rest of the wort for a full 90 minute boil. Apparently it helps caramelize the sugars and add darker colour to the beer.
 
govner1 said:
Why do you sparge w/ cold water??
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I did it a few times because I forgot to heat the sparge water. I found that it doesn't have any drawbacks other than that you're heating the water after sparge rather than before. I do it pretty much every time now just because it's how I've been doing it. Works well for me.
 
masonsjax said:
I did it a few times because I forgot to heat the sparge water. I found that it doesn't have any drawbacks other than that you're heating the water after sparge rather than before. I do it pretty much every time now just because it's how I've been doing it. Works well for me.
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Doesn't have any draw backs?!? Lower efficiency?
 
To the OP, yes, always.

norcalhomebrewer said:
Doesn't have any draw backs?!? Lower efficiency?
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I did an experiment with this a year or so ago, lost about 2% efficiency...not enough to worry about. Only reason I don't do it is that water heating power tariff is half normal electricity cost where I live!
 
There is no loss in efficiency, that is a common misconception. Ive done extensive experimentation and found there to be no efficiency loss. We're not using granular sugar that needs to be dissolved with hot water before it can be drained. The sugar is converted from soluble starch which simply needs to be agitated free from the grain to homogenize with the water. When batch sparging, the most important (and most overlooked) factor influencing efficiency is agitation of the sparge addition. Add the water and very vigorously stir stir stir before draining and you'll get good numbers.

As for energy costs to heat it up, it's the same amount of liquid that has to be heated to boil whether you do it before stirring or after. Costs would be the same. If anything it would be minimally cheaper to heat after the sparge due to lost heat during the sparge.
 
masonsjax said:
As for energy costs to heat it up, it's the same amount of liquid that has to be heated to boil whether you do it before stirring or after. Costs would be the same. If anything it would be minimally cheaper to heat after the sparge due to lost heat during the sparge.
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Unless your energy source for the two methods is different. In my case, eHLT and propane burner. Then there is the time factor since sparge water can be heated while mashing so the first 100-130 f rise is already done.

I still like the cold sparge concept and if I moved to a basement, all electric brewery it would be my method of choice. I can still have my all gravity set-up if I go that route.
 
If it's warm out and I'm mashing outside, yes. In the dead of winter when I'm mashing inside and boiling on my deck, no.
 
HAHAHAHAHAHA, this thread got pretty awesome! Good discussion guys, and btw, I will be calling my first runnings my cool runnings from now on.
 
When I batch sparged I did. I fly sparge currently and wait until the kettle is ~ 1/2 full before I kick on the burner
 
So was doing some reading around and read that this method, heating the runnings during batch sparge, could actually help to keep my beers from fermenting down in to the driest depths of hell (ie 1.006-1.008) for expected medium body IPAs. Anyone have any input on this theory that by letting my first runnings cool while sparging and filling the kettle can actually make a more fermentable wort??
 
Little_Lebowski said:
So was doing some reading around and read that this method, heating the runnings during batch sparge, could actually help to keep my beers from fermenting down in to the driest depths of hell (ie 1.006-1.008) for expected medium body IPAs. Anyone have any input on this theory that by letting my first runnings cool while sparging and filling the kettle can actually make a more fermentable wort??
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This would make sense if you aren't doing a Mash Out where you de-nature the enzymes. Otherwise, they're still working on the wort in the BK.

BeerSmith.com said:
Beersmith Mash Temp
The two main enzymes active during the mash are alpha and beta amylase. Alpha amylase, which is most active in the 154-167F/68-75C range, creates longer sugar chains that are less fermentable, resulting in a beer with more body. Beta amylase, which is most active between 130-150F/54-65 C trims off single maltose sugar units that are more fermentable. This results in a more complete fermentation (higher attenuation) and a cleaner beer with a thinner body.

A more complete explanation is as follows: both enzymes work to break longer sugar chains into smaller maltose units that yeast can ferment. Alpha amylase is very flexible as it can break sugars chains up at almost any point, and is useful for creating shorter chains for beta amylase to work on. Beta amylase, in contrast, breaks off single highly fermentable maltose units of sugar, but can only work from the ends of the sugar chain. As a result beta amylase is better at creating single molecule maltose sugars that yeast loves, but it takes longer as it works only from the ends of the molecule. The two enzymes work best when applied in combination which is why we usually mash in the middle temperature range around 153F/67C.

A low step temperature (146-150F/63-66 C) emphasizing beta amylase will therefore result in a more complete conversion to simple sugars, but will take longer to complete. These simple sugars will ferment more readily, producing a highly attenuated beer that has higher alcohol content but less body and mouth-feel.
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Sorry about the thread-jack.
 
BGHSmt7 said:
This would make sense if you aren't doing a Mash Out where you de-nature the enzymes. Otherwise, they're still working on the wort in the BK.



Sorry about the thread-jack.
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Well the mash temp thing is no mystery to me. I'm more focused on the idea of first runnings sitting around 130-140 until the sparge is complete. Never really thought there'd be enzyme activity this late in the game but I guess it does make plenty of sense
 
I used to have a problem with my beers attenuating too much. Once I started heating the first runnings right away they usually attenuate right in line with the yeast manufacturer's estimates.
 
Sparge and drain should not take more than a few minutes and you should be above the enzymes' active temp range long before it would meaningfully impact fermentability. That's one of the main reasons to batch sparge. You don't need a mashout because you're already heating up beyond the activity zone before it's a problem. If you sparge with cold water, you're going to be below that range and as you heat to boil, you'll sail right past it without a problem.
 
i have an eHERMs system and set my boil kettle to 210 degrees as soon as the element and temperature probe is covered with liquid.
 
If you get to a boil well short of your volume, add your bittering hops, and it takes a significant amount of time to reach full volume it would seem like the hop utilization would be affected especially if you continue to add cool wort to the boil.
 
at least 10-15 minutes with the batch sparge itself, recirc and second running drain. How significant is that?
 
masonsjax said:
Why would it take a significant amount of time to reach volume when batch sparging? If it does, something is wrong.
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If batch sparging is so fast why would you need to or have time to start heating the wort prior to completing the sparge?
 
Why wait? I turn on the heat as soon as the runnings cover the element.

Draining a 10 gallon batch only takes me a couple of mins. I vorlauf a quart or so then drain with the valve fully open. Quick and easy.
 
masonsjax said:
Why wait? I turn on the heat as soon as the runnings cover the element.

Draining a 10 gallon batch only takes me a couple of mins. I vorlauf a quart or so then drain with the valve fully open. Quick and easy.
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I understand you get to volume quickly but for those that may reach a boil prior to reaching full volume the implications may be worth considering.
As wort gravity increases Hop utilization decreases.
Additionally, adding cool wort to the now boiling wort, cooling it periodically, further reduces Hop utilization.
It seems feasible that if you encourage a race to the boil that some systems will achieve it prior to reaching full volume.
Ten or twenty points in gravity and ten minutes at less than boiling temperatures over a 60 minute boil could impact the IBU's to the point of being noticeable.
Not all brewing systems are the same.
 
masonsjax said:
Why wait? I turn on the heat as soon as the runnings cover the element.

Draining a 10 gallon batch only takes me a couple of mins. I vorlauf a quart or so then drain with the valve fully open. Quick and easy.
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I do 5-gallon batches and my mash tun has a torpedo screen; I tie a hop sock secured with a twist tie over the screen. Vorlauf takes about a minute maybe, as the sock is screening out small particles. I only vorlauf just to prevent all the tiny particles from clogging the sock. After a minute, I open the valve and it just drains out.

Very fast, and meanwhile the first runnings are heating in the boil kettle.
 
In my case my BK burner does not run well on low. I also do my batch sparge in 2 additions to get a very accurate preboil volume leaving almost nothing behind so by the time I get the second sparge in the BK it is boiling over. So I don't do it. Mash temp to boil only takes about 10 minutes anyway....
 

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