So, what's all the hubbub about?

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Paps

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I've seen a good number of electric set-ups with multi PID having control panels and wiring that resembles a computers main processor.
Noooow, if the intention is to hit 1 button and go watch reruns of MASH on TV (see what i did there) and come back x amount of hours later to having wort ready for yeast/fermentation, i can see this.
Personally however, i view this as a wastefull uneeded item in a brew set up.
Maybe if doing multiple step mashing is a high priority then perhaps not but for somebody whom tends to stick to methods of simplicity, why on earth would anyone want one of these and the extra expense along with it?
I'm dabbling in the idea of going electric and larger in brewing. ( thinking 1/2 or full barrel capacity as i am lucky to brew once every 3 months.)
Sooooo.....other than being automated or heavy step mash users, could somebody explain to me what all the hubbub is about them and why not just use the simple 2-mode method ( that being on & off ) with an induction burner or water heater element in the brew kettle?
Thank you all in advance for your imput on this.
 
It doesn't have to be fancy, but without some sort of controller it is unlikely that one would be able to dial in the appropriate boil vigor, unless the elements were sized perfectly for the kettle volume. Also, a PID and SSR can keep very tight mash temperatures. If you get a PID with manual mode, it can perform both functions (manually set the percentage power applied, as a percentage of the cycle time, for the boil and create a temperature set point for the mash).

Even for simple on/off control, one should at least have a switch rather than constantly plugging and unplugging a 240v line.
 
To the untrained eye, my control panel probably looks like it could launch the space shuttle, but it really doesn't do much other than controlling the temps of the HLT and BK and monitors the temps of the MLT and chiller.

I wanted a BK that could deliver exact amounts of heat to my boil because I was tired of undershooting / overshooting my boil volume.

I wanted a mash tun that could hold temps precisely and could be ramped up in temps precisely.

I wanted a hot liquor tank that could heat up and stay where I wanted it to be without me futzing with it, since I'm usually milling grains when my HLT is heating up.

My electric brewery does all these things for me.
 
Even for simple on/off control, one should at least have a switch rather than constantly plugging and unplugging a 240v line.

I don't mind having a switch and was not suggesting that i would unplug something over and over. With that said my current 5 gallon set up uses an insulated cooler which doesn't drop more than 1 degree F during a 60 min mash and i have a LP burner with a manual gas adjust. Something like this minus the gas add electric ( & capacity) would be just fine by me. What route would you all experienced electric brewers go having those parameters?
 
IMO a PWM type controller is what you're looking for.

Something like this: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=444

It's sort of analogous to the regulator for your LP tank. But if you are going thru the trouble of going electric why not spend a little more to get precise temp control? The only thing you're automating is pot watching.

Edit: I'm sure with some digging you can probably find even cheaper alternatives to the above, I just gave it as an example.
 
Would you cook on a stove top with no control knob or buttons? How about the timer? Wouldnt you rather have one?
Its really that simple.
The temp readouts and precise control allows one to replicate the same results consistently...
It also allows me to recirculate during g my mash through a rims tube to both control and change mash temps on the fly and all the while the wort goes from cloudy to clear before going to the boil kettle.

And you would have to sit there flipping that switch on and off at least once every second for the full boil to get a nice consistent boil... kind of silly when you can build a simple pwm or ssvr control solution for $20-50...
 
. . . why not just use the simple 2-mode method ( that being on & off ) with an induction burner or water heater element in the brew kettle?
I've gone the simple route. No space shuttle control panel. Not "on & off" but a 3000W 240V heating element with a built in temperature control work fine for dialing in my HLT temperature. I boil with a 3500W induction hob and us a cheap router speed control to vary the voltage going to the 120V element for my mash. Gives me complete control, just manual.

The 3000W temperature controlled immersion heater in the picture was a $1 minimum bid eBay score!

EHLT_01.jpg
 
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While some of us love tinkering and building gadgets and having 1000s of different options of "set it and forget", its ultimately down to control and repeatability. With an On/Off switch, you are still relying on your own timing to hit temperatures, not overshoot, etc. When you allow a controller, such as a PID, BCS, or other automated brewing controller, to handle that step, the machine can make sure you hit your numbers on time, every time. Small variations probably wont ruin your beer, but it could make it very difficult to reproduce, or at the least, very difficult for someone else to reproduce. With a controlled system you are going to get the same beer every time.
 
Less inconsistent variables= more consistent predictable results... most engineering types see this as a no brainer which is one of the reasons you see so many of them using electric.
 
For now, I only run the first phase of my brewday (mash) on electric. Even still, I can't tell you how many times something has come up on a brewday that requires me to "pause" what I'm doing. At these points, I'm really grateful to know that I can safely walk away from my mash or strike water for a while. Some things that have come up:

- Noticed my dry yeast packet was punctured somehow, had to run to the store to get a new one
- Store run for propane refill (sometimes I even plan to do this during the mash)
- Sickness
- Family emergency

Compared to the consistency benefits, this is obviously a minor point, but I love the safety blanket of knowing my mash will always be at the right temp whether I do a 30 minute mash or a 120 minute mash. No worries about it dropping to 135 because it's 15 degrees out, no worries about it rising to 180 because I only have on/off capability.


Edit: Oh look, a North Tonawanda-er!
 
I don't mind having a switch and was not suggesting that i would unplug something over and over. With that said my current 5 gallon set up uses an insulated cooler which doesn't drop more than 1 degree F during a 60 min mash and i have a LP burner with a manual gas adjust. Something like this minus the gas add electric ( & capacity) would be just fine by me. What route would you all experienced electric brewers go having those parameters?

I agree with those who have suggested a PWM if all you want to do is control the power output for the boil. That said, for little incremental cost you can get a PID with manual mode and have the option to precisely control your mash if you ever want to go there. The only practical difference for the boil is that the PWM will have a rotary dial, and the PID will have a digital interface. My personal preference would be for the latter, because of the additional temperature setpoint functionality.
 
I agree with those who have suggested a PWM if all you want to do is control the power output for the boil. That said, for little incremental cost you can get a PID with manual mode and have the option to precisely control your mash if you ever want to go there. The only practical difference for the boil is that the PWM will have a rotary dial, and the PID will have a digital interface. My personal preference would be for the latter, because of the additional temperature setpoint functionality.

Right - or if you wanted to do a 45 minute hopstand at a certain temperature, you only get that controllability with a PID.
 
It doesn't take many wires in a small area like a control box to make it start looking like a complicated mess to the untrained eye. However, it's not as bad as it looks once you know what each device is doing.

To each his own though. If you like it simple, keep it simple. I built my system as minimally complicated as possible, while still getting to enjoy the complexities that come along with a 3 vessel, 3 element, 3 controller system where every vessel can recirculate and be temperature controlled. I left the timer out of my design because my iPhone has a timer/stopwatch app built in. Most of the time I'm in front of it anyways so the additional automation wouldn't buy me much.
 
Edit: Oh look, a North Tonawanda-er!


Yes Sir! small world.

If it hasnt been mentioned yet another advantage is to be able to set a pid to 206 degrees-set the alarm and go watch tv or fold the laundry while it heats up to that point and then sets off the alarm.. then you can change it over to manual mode and let it climb the last few degrees to a boil and have instant control to avoid boilovers... 40 brews on mine so far and no boil overs.
 
For me, probably the number one reason I built a control panel was because I’ve always been enamored with electronics and gadgets and felt like I ‘needed’ it (when I know that I truly didn’t). Im an engineer by trade and love to build things (like most people on HBT).

But since using it quite a bit, I’ve come to realize a great number of advantages, most of which have already been mentioned:

-Extremely precise temp control
-Ability to walk away at any time during strike heating or mashing knowing the temps will be correct

These two things have been extremely pleasant surprises that I didn’t think about when I first built the CP, that are now invaluable to me:

1. Ability to start my strike water heating the night before. Wake up, and youre ready to mash and cut ½ hour or so off your brew day. I’ve even mashed overnight a couple times. I know you can do this without control but I can wake up, and be happy that my temperature still reads 152 and not 134.

2. This hasn’t been mentioned yet in this thread – SOUS VIDE!!!!!! The first time I made sous vide steaks for dinner my wife actually told me that all the money I spent building the ebrewery was worth it! (she never complained about drinking the homebrew either but I didn’t get the accolades).
 
I'll echo these last comments; I was batch sparging and getting award winning beers, but occasionally the strike temp or infusion had been off enough that I was frantically grabbing ice or boiling water and re-stirring and such. At least one time I'm sure I could taste the difference due to a high mash temp.

And even though cooler mashing drops only a degree or two, the temp is kept consistent with recirculation and control.

Less stress.
 
Paps I agree, some of these guys set ups seem overly complicated.
But having said that, I'll also say I respect them for what they have accomplished and many are willing to share with others what took them time and money to figure out.
Nope, you don't need a complicated set up. You can do electric and run it manually. You can make great beer using that if you just pay attention to whats going on.
Some breweries make world class beer with not much control at all and even use wood as a heat source:


http://dageraadbrewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Caracole-1.png
 
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I am honestly fascinated byt what a lot of folks have built...in a good way.

For me, moving to electric only means three things: basement brewery, more money and no more expensive propane.

So I am a bit in OP's boat. I am an analog guy when it comes to brewing so rotary dial to turn the boil up or down appeals to me. Me redneck eHLT current has a light switch and a 15 amp timer. If I thought I could get away with it I would even prefer to avoid a pump but I most likely have to either pump my chilled wort or pump from the eHlt to the mash tun.
 
I think have the most ghetto control panel out there. By a landslide. Features include: 1x PID, 1xSSR. That concludes the feature list. How do I do it?!

2 vessel brewing. BK is also the HLT. Sparge water comes direct from the hot tap. If I'm feeling fancy I'll get some water good and hot in the BK, then transfer it to a stock pot for "proper" sparging. Brew day goes something along the lines of:

Check valves are shut!
Decide on recipe, measure and start heating strike water
Measure and grind grain
Check valves are shut!
Gravity transfer strike water to Igloo tun, stir in grist, follow mash regime
Heat sparge water if I'm in the mood. Usually not.
Hoist igloo, check valves! Gravity transfer to BK, sparge, top off BK
Get my boil on!
Chill
Another hoist
Cool the batch
Gravity transfer to fermenter
Pitch
RDWHAHB
Cleanup

Current emergency procedure is to unplug the kettle or pop the cable off the temp probe and wait for PID to give error message and stop powering outlet. Not the best system I admit. Haven't needed it. It is on my list of upgrades.
 
I think have the most ghetto control panel out there. By a landslide. Features include: 1x PID, 1xSSR. That concludes the feature list.

Got a pic of your set up???
I don't mean to sound brash or whatnot to all the people whom do have the N.A.S.A. inspired set ups but but regardless of all the `nice features` they have the odds of me being swayed into going that route are nil to nil. They might as well tell me to go out and `try` to get a loan for 500 million so i can buy the same set up the budweiser people use because of all the extra nice features.(get my point?) I have a SEVERELY limited budget because both of my jobs suck ass but would like to move away from LP gas (outdoors) and swap over to electric (be able to brew indoors safly in any weather)
Brewing to me incudes the `sitting there watching/monitoring the batch as it progresses. I won't go watch TV and there really isnt any reason that would pull me away from brew day (except for bazooka ****s but if i had those i wouldn't plan on brewing that day anyhow)
I've seen a few threads where they use a 3500 watt induction cooker for 10 gallon batches and i might go that route but i was hoping to bump up to at least 15 gal batches. Anyways, i'm not hating on the N.A.S.A. set ups or the people whom use them. Just my budget is not in the thousands but in the hundreds so excess/bling has to be eliminated. TY again all for the replies so far.
 
I believe it cost me in the neighbourhood of $300 to get the whole electric rig going. That includes the brew pot. I use the same AG equipment as before, just the panel and e-kettle instead of stovetop and crock pots. Previously I had 2 stock pots for the boil.

While not the best setup out there it works for me and I haven't scorched a batch or zapped myself yet. FWIW I can in a reasonable time get 13 gallons boiling with 4100w, a little dicey in a 15g pot, but possible with the gentle ramp temp that electric offers. I have no doubt that with some fine tuning you could end up with 12g wort, 3g topup for your 15g goal.

Planning a brew day tomorrow, I'll try and squeeze in some time for a photoshoot as well. Might even post a new thread for it. I'll keep you posted.
 
Like Zepth, I have a similar system. I am engineer but I like simplicity. I certainly like the 3 vessel eHerms and my engineering side finds itself wanting to build one but then I think about the extra equipment, cost, cleaning, upkeep, etc and I am not convinced it makes better beer than my current setup.

I have a 2 vessel system: a 15.5 gal kettle and a mash tun cooler. I batch sparge. This has worked for me for as long as I've been brewing. So I added a 5500W ULWD element to my kettle and built a controller based off an eBIAB diagram from PJ. Here's my process:


  • Add strike water to BK and set PID to mash temp + 15 degrees
  • When water approaches set temp, I start the pump to recirculate the water through the BK, avoiding temp stratification
  • Once set temp is reached, I move the hose from the kettle to my mash tun cooler and fill it up
  • Once the cooler has warmed up, add grains. At this point, I am usually a degree or two from desired mash temp and can get the temp down by stirring a little longer.
  • During the mash, I fill the kettle with sparge water and set the temp to 190. That tends to get the mash to 170 for sparging. I recirculate the water while it heats up.
  • I drain the mash tun into a spare kettle.
  • Once the first runnings are collected, I pump the sparge water from BK to MT.
  • Dump the first runnings into the BK, set PID to 202 and collect second runnings

I brew in the garage, so for me, it's a nice time to grab a chair, turn up the radio and relax. During the mash, I go in the house, get the fermenters sanitized and watch TV for a while. There is no need to baby sit the kettle as it heats up the sparge water. This is what I like most about electric brewing. With propane, I could never walk away from it.

Pic of the controller. A year later, and I still haven't gotten around to putting in labels... Switch to right of PID turns PID on/off. Bottom left switch turns pump on/off, bottom middle turns element on/off and bottom right lights up when the element is energized.
IMG_0044.jpg

Pic of 13 gal boiling. Controller was set at 70% if I remember correctly. 5500W has plenty of power!
IMG_0103.jpg
 
Since someone dug up this old(ish) thread...

My biggest reason for going electric was to get out of the garage and into my heated/central A/C basement.

No more freezing or sweating my butt off, or fighting mosquitoes after the sun goes down.

Granted, I love the idea of precision control too!
 
In one week my electrician comes out to toy around with my still-dragon controller boxes and my 25/45 gallon kettles and modify my 220- line.
Still will need some odds and ends before i can brew with them but thank goodness making some progress.
 
Honestly i only started building my 3 Vessel EHERMS because i sold my house and made a nice profit so i put aside a few thousand to bling out my favorite hobby....im still doing it on the cheap though, my entire setup will probably be about 1.5k by the time im done for three 20 gal vessels and everything required.

My friends buy ATV's,Jetski's, boats, and fancy UAV's... i buy brewing gear....in the end its a much cheaper hobby than any of those lol.
2015-08-09%2021.05.17.jpg
 
Honestly i only started building my 3 Vessel EHERMS because i sold my house and made a nice profit so i put aside a few thousand to bling out my favorite hobby....im still doing it on the cheap though, my entire setup will probably be about 1.5k by the time im done for three 20 gal vessels and everything required.

My friends buy ATV's,Jetski's, boats, and fancy UAV's... i buy brewing gear....in the end its a much cheaper hobby than any of those lol.
2015-08-09%2021.05.17.jpg

My setup is in the similar ballpark... about a grand for my 3 vessel 16 gallon setup with rims and 3 pumps... I had more of a budget spead out over time and made a lot of upgrades from cheaper solutions (cooler mashtun- smaller kette ext)
My build is below for people looking.
 
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