Adventures in 1g Raisin Wine Illustrated!

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Mirilis

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So I buy the big packs of sun maid raisins from Sam's Club for my kids. I have read on here about how good the raisin wine is and I wanted to try it. I also have a couple old wine books... now keep in mind my wine has always come out awful.. but I think I know why and I think I got it fixed. (no degassing on my part before.. this time ill use my food-saver)

So I used the following:
1.875 lbs Raisins (that was exactly 1 bag)
1.5 lbs of sugar (+/- some to get to the right gravity)
1 tsp Citric Acid
1 tsp Pectic Enzyme
1 tsp Yeast Nutrient
1 package Pasteur yeast from Red Star

ingredients-64768.jpg


So I read on here its easier to use hot water and a blender to chop them up without making the sludge turd. I did just that and it worked out great. The water I used was from my carbon filter through my outside tap. I heated it up threw it in there with half the bag of raisins and pulsed ~10 seconds twice.. then repeated with the other half of the bag of raisins.

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I got both of those into the 1.5 gallon fermenter bucket and then topped off with cold water, added my enzyme and acid then put the air lock in and took it downstairs.

Next I just re-hydrated the yeast in a cup of water with the nutrient dissolved in it. I figure between the stirring i did of my yeast slurry and the excessive stirring i did in the bucket there should be enough oxygen.

I tested my gravity at 18.5 brix so if it ferments to dryness which I expect a 10.5% wine. If I have to back sweeten I will. The liquid level is close to the 1.3 gallon mark. I imagine as it ferments then more sugar will be extracted out of the raisin chunks so the 18.5 Brix might not be totally accurate

finished-64766.jpg


I put it down in the basement where it is a constant 68 degrees. (my fermentation fridge is full with a Schwartzbier and Dunkel in it)

Well see how this goes. If anyone has done this before and wants to pass along some advice im all ears. I figure ill let it go a week or two till there's not much activity then take it off the raisins and put it in a 1 gallon glass carboy. Then ill let it go a few more weeks and degas then put into another 1 gallon glass carboy and let it set for a while.
 
It'll be interesting to hear how this comes out! It should be a bear to rack, based on the photos, so I'd probably move to secondary by straining, and do that before any risk of oxidation, say by SG 1.010 or so.

No need to degas the wine- unless you're rushing it to bottle- and that can be much more harmful than helpful once fermentation slows. For now, some stirring would be helpful, and some yeast nutrient if you have it now. Stir twice a day for three days, and then it should be about ready for secondary at 68 degrees. (That's a good temp for almost all yeast strains).
 
No need to degas the wine- unless you're rushing it to bottle- and that can be much more harmful than helpful once fermentation slows

I started wines and beers in 2007.. I got fairly consistent in my brewing by 2008.. And that's when I tasted my wines... Horribly acidic and very astringent.

I'm just now giving wines a go again. Before I'd do a few days to a week in bucket and then secondary for 2 weeks.. Then rack again for a month and bottle... Was that too soon? After the this rd transfer should I just fill dead space in my carboy with marbles and let it set for 4-5 months ? Sorry I'm full of questions.
 
I started wines and beers in 2007.. I got fairly consistent in my brewing by 2008.. And that's when I tasted my wines... Horribly acidic and very astringent.

I'm just now giving wines a go again. Before I'd do a few days to a week in bucket and then secondary for 2 weeks.. Then rack again for a month and bottle... Was that too soon? After the this rd transfer should I just fill dead space in my carboy with marbles and let it set for 4-5 months ? Sorry I'm full of questions.

A few days (generally, 5-7 or so) in the bucket is fine. You want 0 headspace in a carboy after that. Once the wine is no longer throwing lees after at least 60 days in a new vessel, and is clear, it's ok to bottle but it may take a couple of rackings first. Rack whenever you have lees 1/4 thick, or after 60 days with any lees at all. Use campden tablets, crushed and dissolved, at the dose of 1 tablet per gallon at every other racking, as an antioxidant, and keep it topped up and you should be fine!
 
Its considered not healthy for the yeasts to add your nutrient to the rehydration step unless you use something like goferm, just rehydrate them at the right temp and put all the nutrients in the must. After you strain this you are going to probably add some more liquid, you can dissolve some ELDME into some water and use that to top up with to give it an even richer body. WVMJ
 
((I was right about the sugar extraction from the raisins. I checked my gravity at pitch was 18.5 Brix... today about 24 hours after pitch it was 20.5 Brix and it was plugging away))

Wow I was so tired last night i posted this in the wrong thread. Thanks for the tip WVMJ.. i have some old wine book and it wanted me to re hydrate in a mixture of orange juice and yeast nutrient.. i thought that sounded suspicious so i used water like I do with my beer yeasts.. I typically don't add nutrient to my beers so I just threw it in there to dissolve it. Next time ill throw it in the bucket.
 
Thank you for this experiment. I was planning to do some fermentation with dates, but was clueless how to execute it. This is a great help.

Aren't raisins covered with Brett and bacteria? Do you think you pasteurized them with the hot water in the blender, or just let them do their work while they can?
 
Thank you for this experiment. I was planning to do some fermentation with dates, but was clueless how to execute it. This is a great help.

Aren't raisins covered with Brett and bacteria? Do you think you pasteurized them with the hot water in the blender, or just let them do their work while they can?

No raisins are generally heavily sulfited in the package. That's why people with true sulfite allergies or sensitivities can't eat them or things like dried apricots.
 
I was gonna throw a campden tab and wait a day for pitch but yooper said there was plenty of sulfates in it... I guess well see what happens.. Its bubbling pretty good right now.. I'll probably strain and funnel into glass tomorrow night. When I do I'll snap a shot and upload it.
 
No raisins are generally heavily sulfited in the package. That's why people with true sulfite allergies or sensitivities can't eat them or things like dried apricots.

Yooper, I usually take your word for it, but this got me curious. I have the same Sun Maid Raisins from Sam's Club here and there is no mention on the packaging they contain sulfites.

When a product contains enough sulfites I can usually smell the breakdown gas (SO2), when opening closed packaging but haven't noticed that with these raisins. Let's get to the bottom of this.

A Sun Maid FAQ states:
Q:Are there additives or preservatives in Raisins?
A: In our Sun-Maid Natural Raisins there are no additives or preservatives. When the raisins are ready to be processed, we clean the raisins using large aspirators (vacuums), graders, and shakers to remove stems, dirt, and other foreign objects. We then do a very thorough washing in fresh water which rehydrates the raisins.

Sun-Maid Golden Raisins are cleaned in much the same way, although these raisins are treated with the preservative sulfur dioxide.
So only Golden Raisins are sulfited. Their regular raisins are not, apparently, just thoroughly washed. I wonder if "thorough" may contain certain treatment chemicals (e.g., meta) at some washing step.

This can become an even more interesting experiment.
 
I was gonna throw a campden tab and wait a day for pitch but yooper said there was plenty of sulfates in it... I guess well see what happens.. Its bubbling pretty good right now.. I'll probably strain and funnel into glass tomorrow night. When I do I'll snap a shot and upload it.

Not to be nitpicking, but it is the sulfites (SO3--) that inhibit yeast propagation and kill bacteria. Sulfates (SO4--) do not.

Let's see what happens. A partial Brett wine is not a bad thing.

Ah, forgot to add, Wikipedia mentions this:
Sulfur dioxide [SO2] is used as an antioxidant in some dried fruits to protect their color and flavor. For example, in golden raisins, dried peaches, apples and apricots sulfur dioxide is used to keep them from losing their light color by blocking browning reactions that darken fruit and alter their flavor.​

Note (added):
Sulfites (as well as bisulfites, metabisulfites, etc.) are typically instable and slowly release SO2 gas, which is the protective agent.
 
Not to be nitpicking, but it is the sulfites (SO3--) that inhibit yeast propagation while killing bacteria. Sulfates (SO4--) do not.

Let's see what happens. A partial Brett wine is not a bad thing.

Ahem. Sulfites that we are talking about- S02. Sulfur dioxide. :mug: It's not actually a true sulfite except that's how we refer to it. It's actually an oxide of sulfur. We add potassium metabisulfite, and some is bound and some is free. When we talk about SO2 levels, we are talking about the sulfur dioxide (although the sulfite molecule is indeed S03 for a true sulfite).

Nitpicking the nitpickiest of the nitpickers- that is me.
 
Ahem. Sulfites that we are talking about- S02. Sulfur dioxide. :mug: It's not actually a true sulfite except that's how we refer to it. It's actually an oxide of sulfur. We add potassium metabisulfite, and some is bound and some is free. When we talk about SO2 levels, we are talking about the sulfur dioxide (although the sulfite molecule is indeed S03 for a true sulfite).

Nitpicking the nitpickiest of the nitpickers- that is me.

When it comes to our fermentation hobbies we nitpickers seem to find each other. :rockin:
I had pressed the submit button before I finished my thought. ¿:drunk:?
Then my add-on got lopped off (corrected since). Yes, in short it's the released SO2 gas that does the work.
 
So its been three days and I decided to get all that raisin crud out of my bucket and into a carboy. I sanitized my strainer and funnel.

strainer-64779.jpg


All the raisin chunks float to the top so I just strained scooped it out with my stainless spoon and threw it in the strainer then dumped the solids in the sink. Then I just poured the bucket right into the strainer.. its still fermenting pretty strong so Im not too afraid of oxygen at this point. I mean in high gravity beers you can give em a second shot of oxygen a few days later so its the same concept right? Heres the crud left over.

spent-raisins-64780.jpg


Finally I got my stopper and bubbler fixed in the carboy and took it back downstairs. I took a gravity reading and it was ~15 brix.. so Im going to guess that my OG was be ~21-22 brix and give me a 12-13% ABV wine.

transferred-64778.jpg
 
I didn't want to extract anymore sugars out of the raisin pulp.. I want to stay in the 12-13% ABV range. When I pulled the sample for gravity I felt it had enough raisin flavor for my taste. As a second note I wanted to get it out of the bucket and into glass and I won't have time this week to do it unless I did it today.
 
I really like this project. I'm eyeing up that bag of raisins I have...
Maybe using a Trappist High Gravity Belgian yeast (WY3787) instead of Pasteur?
 
Thank you for the offer, very appreciated. Let's first see where she takes you. 6 months is a long ride, but she looks good, all topped up.
 
The bulk of fermentation is over.. just a little pressure now on the lock.
It is also starting to clear up. Ill give it another week or two then rack it and let it go a couple months. Hopefully it wont be like the pear wine I tried to make and just be cloudy forever till i dump it.
 
Wow, that's fast. Why remove them so early? I leave fruit in beer for weeks.

For wine, it's common to leave the fruit as little as 5-7 days, even for strawberry wines and other fruit wines. That's in primary, and usually it's not even airlocked. Then the fruit is separated from the wine, and the wine is put into a carboy and airlocked. Sometimes the fruit is already gray by the time, and if pectic enzyme is used, the fruit is pretty broken apart and mushy also.
 
I haven't updated on here in a while. I racked and its setting in a 1 gallon jug with a bag of marbles in it. It is crystal clear and still has pressure on the lock so I was just going to let it sit. I will upload a pic tonight.
 
Marbles keep the liquid level high to make up for what you lost in racking. Small amount of head space is good.. it means not so much air is in there to spoil your wine.

... do you not worry about droping them in and it cracking the glass? Is this for smallger jugs only? Say I have a 6 gal carboy.... can I put 6lbs of marbles in there? Just dump em in?
 
That looks pretty yummy! It may need some time to age, but you are moving in the right direction!

I wonder how this would taste bringing your prehydrated raisins to 2 lbs and adding in a can of red grape concentrate in place of some of your sugar. I am sure it would take longer to age out (and may be very strong), but raisins are supposed to be good for fortified and fortified-style wines.
 
How long should I let this go before I bottle it? I started the batch 1/22 (so about 4 months ago). Its been in the basement forever just sitting there crystal clear. There is a bit of pressure on the air lock but im assuming that is just natural degassing.

Should I dump in a crushed campden tab wait a few days then rack it and add a little bit of sugar to back sweeten?
 
I think the general rule is 60 days with no new lees and you are safe to bottle.

Usually you rack onto a crushed and dissolved campden tablet vs. adding it to must. If you plan on sweetening, it is also advisable to use Postassium Sorbate + the campden tab to stabalized, wait a few days, sweeten, and then if fermentation doesn't restart after a few more days you can bottle.

My first few fruit wines were "stabalized" with 2-3 campden tabs per gallon (none added at rackings - just 1/gal prior to pitching yeast) prior to sweetening and bottling. None have blown or show signs of carbonation. Not saying it is the best way... but I have seen this in books for process and it can be done.
 
well its been over a year now... i guess i should get around to bottling this thing. Im going to backsweeten it just a tad and bottle it up this weekend... hopefully.
 
I got it bottled over the weekend. I took 1 cup of water heated it with 1/4 cup sugar and a bit of lemon juice. Once that cooled I swirled in the sorbate. I took one bottle out of the gallon as unsweetened and then poured in the invert sugar and bottled the rest. There was a 1/2 bottle left over so i just chilled and drank that.

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tasted like wine.. never had raisin wine before so i have nothing to compare it to. I imagine it finished out in the 12-14% ABV range. The alcohol was definitely there but not harsh or unpleasant
 
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