Coldbreak Brewing HERMS Giveaway!

HomeBrewSupply AMCYL Brew Kettle Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Sour mashing for Lambics
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-19-2006, 06:17 AM   #1
Denny's Evil Concoctions
Grande Megalomaniac
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Denny's Evil Concoctions's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Kelowna BC, Canada
Posts: 7,767
Liked 51 Times on 42 Posts

Default Sour mashing for Lambics

Any of you do a sour mash for making lambics (Or other sour beer styles) vs adding brettomycies, etc. to the fermenting wort?

Would like to know any advice in doing a sour mash by any one who has tried this method. Any good recipes?


__________________
I may not be an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express........ 6 months ago.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/denn...9/#post1766281

http://groups.homebrewtalk.com/Tapro...ook_Repository

Denny's Evil Concoctions is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2006, 02:19 PM   #2
Baron von BeeGee
Beer Bully
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Baron von BeeGee's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Barony of Fuquay-Varina, NC
Posts: 5,419
Liked 20 Times on 19 Posts

Default

I tried a sour mash for a summer ale and it turned out pretty bad and I've been scared ever since. The procedure was to put a small amount of crushed grain in a pint of warm water and then let it sit, covered, at room temp for 2-3 days. It smelled horrendous (which the recipe indicated was exactly what I wanted). I don't know if something went wrong with the mash, or I had some contamination somewhere else, but it wasn't good beer.

I know other people have had fantastic results with sour mashes. Seems like the addition of some sort of lambic blend from one of the commercial yeast mfrs would be a lot more controlled.


Baron von BeeGee is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2006, 06:06 PM   #3
casebrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 850
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts

Default

Thanks for the lead- now I know to look for "sour mash".

I tried a sampler of the Hout Sour Blackberry at Home Brew Mart the other day. I like it. Now I'll have to try brewing my own.

I have been eating Rye Porridge, made from malted rye. First I mill it, then add 3 parts milk and nuke it. Takes about 1/2 hour to cook. The other day, I thought I would try to hasten things up a bit, so I soaked it overnight, like you do for beans. Popped it into he micro, cooked a little faster. But didn't look right- the milk had curdled into white clumps. Didn't taste sweet either. I know that you add acid to curdle milk, I wondered where the acid came from....I guess I made Lambic porridge. But it did get me thinking about sour mash....

Anybody here aquainted with the term "pro-biotic"? Lacto bacillus is good for the tummy function.
casebrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2006, 06:55 PM   #4
casebrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 850
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts

Default

Here's the first link I found to a recipe, <http://byo.com/recipe/1209.html> , it sounds like BeeGees.

But I'll wait for more input here before trying it in my brown rye....
__________________
So far, I've had more experience thinking than I've had brewing....you don't think they are mutually exclusive, do you?

72 batches so far,
48 wine, mostly Loquat, peach, plum, prickly pear
23 beers and ciders
1 sauerkraut
1 Tequila, from a prickly pear wine experiment that didn't work. I call it "Prickly Heat"
casebrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2006, 08:36 PM   #5
casebrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 850
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts

Default

I've looked at several sites for sour mash. Looks like you sour a small amount of your mash, and add it back to the rest of the mash at sparge time. SOoo, your sourness is predetermined, since the one hour boil will halt the lacto-fermentation ? Biggest variable that I see is using wild strains that live on the malt already- subject to infection by stray beasties? Yogurt culture would eliminate that possibility?

It's the lacto's that naturaly pickle food- like saur kraut. Or pickles, in a milky brine? Maybe salt would help in the sour mash? Perhaps some study on pickling is in order before I let some mash go bad?
__________________
So far, I've had more experience thinking than I've had brewing....you don't think they are mutually exclusive, do you?

72 batches so far,
48 wine, mostly Loquat, peach, plum, prickly pear
23 beers and ciders
1 sauerkraut
1 Tequila, from a prickly pear wine experiment that didn't work. I call it "Prickly Heat"
casebrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2006, 08:41 PM   #6
Baron von BeeGee
Beer Bully
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Baron von BeeGee's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Barony of Fuquay-Varina, NC
Posts: 5,419
Liked 20 Times on 19 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by casebrew
Here's the first link I found to a recipe, <http://byo.com/recipe/1209.html> , it sounds like BeeGees.
Yep, that's the one I tried. It involves creating a sour mash and then adding it to the main mash. I might try it again this summer as it sounds good on paper, but my first attempt really was bad beer (I'm sure it didn't resemble the cloned beer at all).
Baron von BeeGee is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2006, 09:14 PM   #7
Kaiser
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Kaiser's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pepperell, MA
Posts: 3,904
Liked 121 Times on 73 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Sour mashing is actually not intended to make the wort noticeably sour. It's intended to lower the PH of the mash and sparge water which lightens the beer color and helps with the extraction of fermentables. It's a common practice for Pilsner style beers.

I'd be using acid-malt though. This seems more predictable than a sour mash.

Kai

Edit:

I just looked at the recipe. Pretty interesting that this is an extract w/ grain recipe that calls for a sour mash. The AG version is what I would usually expect for a recipe that uses a sour mash.

It definitely looks as if it has the potential for disaster or to be really great.

Kai

Kaiser is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2006, 09:20 PM   #8
Baron von BeeGee
Beer Bully
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Baron von BeeGee's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Barony of Fuquay-Varina, NC
Posts: 5,419
Liked 20 Times on 19 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai
Sour mashing is actually not intended to make the wort noticeably sour.
At least with the recipe I tried that was the intent:
Quote:
Replicator replies: I spoke to head brewer Jonathan Zangwill at Flying Fish about this seasonal beer. Jonathan describes Farmhouse Summer ale as a beer that does not fit into a traditionally recognized beer style. It is light in color with low hop bitterness. Jonathan says “what makes this beer so delicious is its crisp, slightly sour and citrusy finish. The beer drinks so easy on hot days, you don’t even realize you are drinking beer.”
The crisp, slightly sour flavor comes from a “sour mash” with a small portion of the grain used to make this beer. If this malt gets so stinky you could never imagine putting it anywhere but the trash can, it’s perfect! For more information visit www.flyingfish.com or call 856-489-0061.
I think this is probably an American practice the popped up from sour mash distilled beverages, but don't know.
Baron von BeeGee is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2006, 12:27 AM   #9
casebrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 850
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts

Default

My web seaching for sauerkraut says they use salt, but also don't try it if the temp goes over 75 f or the molds will take over. I just may try a lactic fermentation of kraut- a 2 gal pickle jar with a bubbler in the top, 6 weeks at 60, 5 at 65, 4 at 70 3 at 75, don't even think about it any higher....yogurt culture for a starter?

Ballast Point Brewing's sampler of Hout Sour Blackberry was about 1/2 as sour as lemonade, a hint of berry, but I don't know their recipe.
__________________
So far, I've had more experience thinking than I've had brewing....you don't think they are mutually exclusive, do you?

72 batches so far,
48 wine, mostly Loquat, peach, plum, prickly pear
23 beers and ciders
1 sauerkraut
1 Tequila, from a prickly pear wine experiment that didn't work. I call it "Prickly Heat"
casebrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2006, 03:29 AM   #10
Kaiser
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Kaiser's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pepperell, MA
Posts: 3,904
Liked 121 Times on 73 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Looks like I learned something new

BTW, you can buy pure lactobazillus cultures for sour mashes or just use the lactobazillus hat occurs naturally on the grain and in your kitchen. The first option may be better if you want to rely on a lactic acid fermentation for taste rather then decreasing the PH for mashing.

Kai


Kaiser is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sour Mashing bunz Recipes/Ingredients 1 09-05-2012 01:58 PM
sour mashing killian All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 1 03-30-2009 08:31 AM
Sour Mashing? boodyrischous Recipes/Ingredients 9 03-26-2009 04:29 PM
Belgian Lambics MgMt_Home_Brew Recipes/Ingredients 10 09-29-2008 10:54 PM
Lambics Parker36 General Beer Discussion 12 05-25-2008 12:03 AM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS