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Old 01-13-2008, 04:25 PM   #1
Donasay
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I brewed a 10 gallon extract batch that included a lot of leftover ingredients I had sitting around:

2lb crystal 60 mini mash
1lb biscuit mini mash
12 lbs light extract
about 3 lbs brown sugar (1 two pound bag and about half a 2 pound bag.)

I split the batch into two carboys, both batches had an original gravity of about for 1.065 slightly above for (1.066) one and slightly below for the other (1.064). I pitched different yeasts, one got some Nottingham Ale Yeast and the other got Safale US 56.

I placed the beers in primary for about two weeks in a room where the temperature during our recent cold snap was in the mid 50's to low 60's. I got stable wort readings, and transferred to secondary for an additional 3 weeks, in the same room, there was little additional fermentation. I took the final gravity readings again and it seems that the noting ham yeast produced a final gravity of 1.015 while the Safale produced a final gravity of 1.020. The beers taste remarkedly different, the Safale is slightly sweeter and has more of a fruity taste, and the Nottingham is much dryer.

I am wondering though if anyone has done something similar and can tell me if the safale does not ferment as well at lower temperatures. I was reading about the Nottingham and it is recommended 14 to 21C (57 to 70F), so my temperatures were good for the Nottingham, but may have been to low for the safale to do its job completely. Any info or personal experiences wold be helpful.
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:35 PM   #2
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Just to point this out - biscuit malt typically has no enzymes (though it should be mashed), and crystal has no enzymes but doesn't need to be mashed. You most likely ended up with a bunch of residual starch from the biscuit, not sure if that's what you were going for?

 
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:41 PM   #3
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Yeast are one of the most important items in the recipe! Its no surprise the brews are different!

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Originally Posted by Funkenjaeger
Just to point this out - biscuit malt typically has no enzymes (though it should be mashed), and crystal has no enzymes but doesn't need to be mashed. You most likely ended up with a bunch of residual starch from the biscuit, not sure if that's what you were going for?
the 12# LME and brown sugar are the fermentables here...the 60L and biscuit were probably just steeped for flavor

FYI... it likes slightly higher temps than nottinghams and is not as floculant. Nottinghams does a real good job at finishing beers dry...

Safale US56
Floculation: Medium
Attenuation: 73-77%
Temperature Range: 59-75F
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:28 PM   #4
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Safale-05 is good in that range as well. 15C is the lowest recommended. Sounds like you got nominal ferments from both of the yeasts, with a lower attenuation, sweeter finish for the Safale.

I did a Schwartzbier (Saflager) / Black Ale batch (London ale yeast) Both were good, but there were almost no differences.
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_42
Safale-05 is good in that range as well. 15C is the lowest recommended. Sounds like you got nominal ferments from both of the yeasts, with a lower attenuation, sweeter finish for the Safale.

I did a Schwartzbier (Saflager) / Black Ale batch (London ale yeast) Both were good, but there were almost no differences.
Thanks, that is the information I was looking for. It is interesting to see the different yeast characteristics and note how they make differences in the beer.
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:54 PM   #6
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I'm not really sure if you're tasting differences in the yeast (as in esters, etc.) or just the difference in the FG. The 1.020 FG will have a markedly different taste because of the residual sugars. It should be more sweet, maybe even a bit cloyingly sweet, but that would depend on the bitterness of the beer. Some people don't like Nottingham because they think it makes the beer too dry. I have an Amber recipe that I prefer the Us-05 over Nottingham for that reason. I like the extra sweetness to balance the hops.

Another experiment to see the real differences between strains would be doing something like a S-04 against the US-05 or Nottingham. The S-4 is an English Ale strain that should give you more of that fruity difference.

I applaud you in your experiment though. It's a great way to see how little changes in ingredients can make a huge difference in outcome.

 
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:01 PM   #7
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there are probably some different flavours from the yeast, but i would agree that it is mainly from the difference in attenuation. those are pretty low profile yeasts.

if you really want to see some flavour differences, pitch one with nottingham and the other with a belgian yeast!

i did a belgian yeast/wheat yeast experiment. unfortunately, the priming extract didn't ferment out and left far too many residual sugars, making the beer undrinkable for months. i tossed the wheat yeast batch and the belgian yeast batch is just now drinkable. far too fruity, but drinkable.

i basically made the recipe too complex and used an untested method of priming which resulted in fail. i'd like to try the experiment again, tho.

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Old 01-13-2008, 08:37 PM   #8
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I was suspicious that the different FGs were a result of the temperature and not entierly the yeast. In addition to being sweeter it also has more of a "fruity" flavor. I did not know if the Safale was supposed to stop at a higher fg than the nottingham, or if it was an external factor such as temperature. I just needed confirmation that the different stains stopped fermenting with different amounts of resdual sugars.
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathBrewer
there are probably some different flavours from the yeast, but i would agree that it is mainly from the difference in attenuation. those are pretty low profile yeasts.

if you really want to see some flavour differences, pitch one with nottingham and the other with a belgian yeast!

i did a belgian yeast/wheat yeast experiment. unfortunately, the priming extract didn't ferment out and left far too many residual sugars, making the beer undrinkable for months. i tossed the wheat yeast batch and the belgian yeast batch is just now drinkable. far too fruity, but drinkable.

i basically made the recipe too complex and used an untested method of priming which resulted in fail. i'd like to try the experiment again, tho.

I just pitched 22g of nottinghams into secondary of a 1.092 belgian dark... it already fermented down to 1.024 with WLP570 Belgian Golden, the wort was still like milk chocolate after a month due to the wheat beer yeast low flooculation. Anyways, I'm pretty sure the belgian yeast gave it up, so i'm hoping the nottinghams will chew through a couple points and settle out of the brew. I'm shootin for 1.016-1.018...
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~~~~~~~~~~~___//_ ____________________________~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~_/ [][]| | /```\/```\/```\/```\/```\ |~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~_/_______| |____NOW TRIPLE HOPPED______|~~~~~~~~~~
~~~___/[_]| 00 /| | \,,,/\,,,/\,,,/\,,,/\,,,/ |~~~~~~~~~~
~~|___|___|___/_| |___________________________|~~~~~~~~~~
~~|=(*)[________]==(*)(*)=| \________/=(*)(*)=|~~~~~~~~~~

 
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:49 PM   #10
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it's good to use a HUGE starter with beers that big and get the wort full of oxygen before they start. temperature control is also important for those big belgian ales so they don't get stuck.

after had trouble with a few of them. that being said, yours looks like it's close to done. you already have 73% attenuation. the nottingham should take care of the rest, but i doubt you'll get lower than 1.018 (which is 80%) and might not even get that far. how's it taste?
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