Widmer Her Clone

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dmarc85

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I just got my starter working using 2 bottles of Widmer Hefeweizen and I'm VERY excited to see a good looking kraussen!

I know that using the right yeast is instrumental in hitting the right flavor profile in a hef. Now I just need the right grain bill and hop schedule. I plan to use pale malt, wheat, 40L and Munich. Tettanger and cascade as well. This will be an all grain batch, 17-gals depending on which fermenter I have available.

I'll keep this thread updated but I'd really appreciate any tips, ideas or pointers before I mash in. Let me know!

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I've never been able to find many facts about widmers hef strain. I can say certainty that it is not WLP320...I once heard through the grapevine that a tour guide at brewery divulged that they use an alt strain in their hefeweizen.

Tonight I made an interesting observation that I wanted to share; I came home after work and took a peek at my starter that I currently have on my stir plate and I noticed that, despite 2 days passing since starting the culture, the yeast has become more active than ever; the krausen is now actually colliding with my foil cap! What's most interesting is that my ambient temperature has dropped from 63F to 55F, which means my culture is well below 60F and it's thriving! I can't wait to make a batch of hef with this...the smells off the starter are interesting and constantly morphing.

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So I brewed up 17 gallons of wort 3 days ago. I used 50/50 US 2-row and US wheat malt for the base. 1.5# Crystal 40l & 2# Munich on top of that. OG 1.051 (a bit high). Mashed 90mins at 152F. 7oz Hallertau (60mins), 3oz Hallertau (30mins), 2oz Cascade (15 mins)

My starter got things bubbling within 6hrs. Pitched yeast warm at 78F. By the time I had serious activity in the air lock I was at 69F. It's been chugging along at 62 for the last 2 days. My garage has been 55-60F, which is lucky since my ferm chamber is lagering my cider at the moment.

Honestly, I'm just super stoked that I was able to harvest that yeast and get it into a beer. Even if this doesn't turn out spot-on, I'll be very happy. More to come.

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looking good dmarc85! i been after a good recipe of a widmer clone for sometime now. as i have tried many attempts at it but cant seem to get it right. but it has been a extract recipe and i have messed around with a few versions of my own. im still brewing in a 5 gal pot using buckets for the ferment process , soon to upgrade i hope to all grain.. would like to know how this turns out for you. i have cultured yeast from the widmer bottle to use on my batches. i would have to agree with you that the (WLP320) is not on hit. im working on a Partial Mash right now, and going to see what i can come up with!
 
Thanks, Jack! I'm very curious about the yeast that Widmer uses; it is so much cleaner than 320. I'm curious, what temp were you fermenting at with the Widmer yeast?
 
Widmer uses an alt strain obtained from zum urige in the 80s. Its available as wyeast1010. (The original strain is 1007 but its probably mutated in 30 years) Its 30 IBUs, and I imagine 50% white wheat malt, and 50% 2 row.
 
Thanks, Jack! I'm very curious about the yeast that Widmer uses; it is so much cleaner than 320. I'm curious, what temp were you fermenting at with the Widmer yeast?


i would have to say at 70, its been sometime back and i did not have a controlled temp set up then. Next time i will do at a much lower temp now that i got the means to (64-66)
 
I noticed my airlock activity slowing and the fermenter temp is closing in toward an ambient 58F.

I pulled a sample to get a gravity reading and had a sip. I'm pleased to report that this beer tastes DAMN close to what you buy at the store.

The biggest difference I could sense was an unusually evidebt floral aroma from the cascade @ 15mins, which I actually found quite nice.

I have unsuccessfully attempted to clone this beer a number of times now. I am very excited at the idea of having virtually an unlimited supply :)

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its looking good... just wondering how you fill about this one im working on..


1.5 # Pale 2-Row - CA 36 1° Mash
1.5# White Wheat - US 40 2° Mash
3# Dry Malt Extract - Wheat - US 42 3° Extract
0.75# Caramel/Crystal 10 - US 35 10° Mash
0.5# Caramel/Crystal 40 - US

hops:
0.5 oz Cascade Pellet Flame Out 0 minutes 5.8 0.0
0.5 oz Willamette Pellet Flame Out 0 minutes 5.0 0.0
0.5 oz Warrior Pellet Boil 60 minutes 16.0 30.7

yeast:

doing 2 batches
1010 wyeast

and one batch from 2 bottles of widmer yeast

doing a 90 min mash on the grains
and then 60 min boil
 
its looking good... just wondering how you fill about this one im working on..


1.5 #Pale 2-Row - CA36 1°Mash
1.5#White Wheat - US40 2°Mash
3#Dry Malt Extract - Wheat - US42 3°Extract
0.75#Caramel/Crystal 10 - US35 10°Mash
0.5#Caramel/Crystal 40 - US

hops:
0.5 ozCascadePelletFlame Out0 minutes5.80.0
0.5 ozWillamettePelletFlame Out0 minutes5.00.0
0.5 ozWarriorPelletBoil60 minutes16.030.7

yeast:

doing 2 batches
1010 wyeast

and one batch from 2 bottles of widmer yeast

doing a 90 min mash on the grains
and then 60 min boil

Thanks for your reply. Sorry I didn't reply earlier! I wanted to encourage you to scale back the wheat. 50/50 barley/wheat content is too rich on the wheat. I'm thinking 70/30 barley/wheat is a better combo.

I'm curious about how your beer turns out. Knowing what I know now I would adjust your recipe to the following:

1.5# white wheat
2.5# extra pale dme
1# dextrose
5 oz 40L crystal
7 oz Munich

.5 oz warrior @ 60
.5 oz cascade @ 30
.5 oz Willamette @ 15
No flameout

Just my thoughts! I'm going to do another batch soon (adjusted to similar specs) I'll keep thread updated. Please post your results.
 
that looks good! im getting my order in here friday. i hope to do one batch this sat. useing the 1010 yeast .. and will have to get the other yeast going from the widmer here sat as well and brew the following week with that one.. will keep it updated on my progress!
 
The Wheat beer is next on my brew list for this weekend! I hoopoe the have the yeast if not it will be 05.
 
I strongly recommend growing a 1L starter from a 12oz bottle of widmer. Its a lot cheaper :)
 
Ok I got my starter going ! No stir plate , have to do it the old fashioned way lol. What temp did you keep your starter at ?

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About 70F until I saw action then 60F for the last 24hrs.
 
For about 2-3 days ?


Activity started kicking up about after about 12hr, but I didn't start seeing a krausen until 24hrs; that's when I moved my starter to my garage (58-62F) where it stayed for another 36hrs. Once the krausen started falling, I pitched it into the wort. I had a real nice start (68F).
 
Both starters are doing good. About 48 hrs in. Took about 24 hrs to get going @ 68. Still got temp around 66-68 I'm hoping that's not to high of a temp. Think ill let them go for another 12-24 hrs then to the fridge with them tell brew day this Saturday.

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That yeast goes crazy still even at temps closer to 60F. If you have a cool garage or crawlspace, I'd recommend moving both starters there right away. Even if it's like 50F you'll grow a healthier starter than indoors at 68. I'm sure you've got enough yeast cells in there already to kick start a 5 gallon batch; so don't worry about the yeast going in actuve either.
 
Got the brew going. Think I will pitch both starters thay both came out healthy. Just wondering what temp did you add your starter ? I'm thinking about 68 tell it takes off then dropping it to 64 .

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I pitched about 72. My ambient temp was 58, which brought it down to my target (62) within 12hrs. By then, I had pretty good airlock activity so the timing seemed to be right on. I pitched 2L of yeast starter for a 15 gal batch (which is a bit on the small side) so I'm sure your 1L starter will tear up a 5gal batch no problem at a 68F pitching temp. Good luck!
 
Widmer yeast on left and wyeast 1010 on the right. Both taste good. Seems the right is a bit darker in color and taste a bit different form the left. I do pick up on some floral notes in both, seems to be tasting well.. going to keg in a week.

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I'm getting ready to tap it tonight. :) seems a bit darker then I was wanted. . Got all my parts to make a mash/lauter tun going to try an all grain here soon . Will post back once I tap the keg
 
the beer seems to have turned out good. think i will have to change the grains a bit . the brew was not spot on but not at all bad, this is the one i used the 1010 yeast on. getting ready to keg the one with the widmer yeast next week! Do you have a break down for a 5 gal batch of what you did? i got my all grain mash/lauter tun made and ready to give it a go! :)
 
6# US 2-row
3# American wheat
6oz 40L Crystal
8oz German Munich

Use a 60min hop schedule.

Use cultured widmer Hefeweizen yeast. Ferm 7 days at 63F. Cold crash 2 days then keg and carb. That's all she wrote.
 
Thanks. Ordering the grains now.. what mash temp am I aiming for and how much water per lb for the grain ? 1.25 qt per lb ? How about the rest temp and how long ? 170 degrees for 10 minutes ? And how much water needed for the rest
 
Will you be using a cooler as your MT? Mash at 150F for 90mins.
 
It's been a while since I've done a 5 gallon all-grain batch; if I remember correctly, I used 7-8 gals of 167F strike water directly into the grains and hit 156F then lost about 7F over the next 90mins. I finished about 148-149F. I got a nice mild beer that would fit the profile.

Disclaimer: Your equipment may hold its temperature better or worse that my equipment...should keep tabs on your mash temp regularly to make sure you are averaging your target temp (150F). Remember, it's an average, which means you want to start above 150 and finish slightly below.
 
Don't worry about mashing out; after 90 mins, sparge very slowly with 175F water until your wort runs clear(ish); the sparging process should be about 45mins. A slow trickle in and a slow trickle out.
 
thanks for the tips dmarc.. i am going to use Batch Sparge method. you say to use a German Munich. would that be a caramel 10 ?
 
Yes. German. Use the lightest you can get, 10l would be ideal.
 
Thanks for sharing the finished product dmarc85! I really enjoyed it :drunk:

thanks for the tips dmarc.. i am going to use Batch Sparge method. you say to use a German Munich. would that be a caramel 10 ?

I will be attempting this recipe as soon as my pipeline clears out :drunk:

I batch sparge as well and will use this process to figure out how much strike water/sparge water I will need:

10 lbs grain x 1.75 qts H2O per lb of grain = 4.375 Gal. (heat this volume up above the strike temp and dump it in the cooler. Let it drift down to 10 F above the target mash temp and then stir in those grains!)

I subtract the loss from grain absorbtion by dividing 10 lbs by 8.3 (weight of a gallon of H2O) which equals 1.2 Gal lost.

So my net 1st runnings should be around 3.175 Gal.

I would be heating up 3.5 to 3.75 Gal of sparge water while I am draining the 1st runnings. Once all the 1st runnings are collected I measure the volume and adjust my sparge water if necessary.

Once the sparge water has reached 180 F I dump it in and stir it all up again. Then vorlauf and drain 2nd runnings into the kettle. For my system I like to hit about 6.75 Gal pre boil volume, your results will probably vary.

Bottom line... I am shooting for approximately a 50/50 split on 1st runnings volume and sparge volume. It's a pretty efficient way to extract sugars ( ;
The math just helps me guestimate where to start is all... always have to adjust the mash ratio up or down for the total grain bill used. Try crunching the numbers for 1.25/1.5/1.75/2.0 qts per pound of grain in your recipe until you work out which ratio gets you closest to that 50/50 split.
HTH
 
thanks for that write up JLeuck64! that will help me out as this will be my first all grain brew! :) i do have another question, i just washed the yeast from my last batch of brew on 2/13 friday, if i brew this sat. the 2/21 do you think i will need to make a starter with the washed yeast or should it be ready to use as is? i have a nice layer of yeast in the jar !
 
Glad to help out if I can ( ;

I don't wash yeast I cultivate my yeast strains. My process is a little different so I wouldn't be able to answer your question, sorry.

Cultivating is pretty cool in my opinion. I make a 1.5L starter for every 5 gal batch I make. The 1st time I use a yeast strain I buy it (liquid form). After my starter has cooled I pitch it in there and put it on the stir plate for 36 - 48 hours before brew day. During brew day, in addition to all the other procedures, I sterilize a 1 pint mason jar and lid. Once I have started the boil I grab that starter I made and pour off some into the mason jar to fill her up, then I put the lid on and place it in the fridge for the next time I need a starter ( ;

While the boil continues I let the rest of the starter settle... then when it's time to pitch in the yeast I decant off most of the liquid in that starter and dump the yeast in the fermentor! Have had great success with this method. Always takes off within 24hrs, I have a very clean yeast starter for the next batch, and I feel comfortable using the same strain for say 5 - 6 generations before it's time to start over.

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I got my new brew pot 10 gal. Think I will have a problem cooling the finish wort with this new pot as it won't fit in my sink like my 5 gal pot dose. Will I be ok to end up with a finished wort of 4 gals. In the 10 gal pot then transfer it to the 5 gal pot cool it to temp then transfer to my fermenter and add 1 gal of water to bring it up to 5 gal target ?

Dont have to worry now. Broke down and bought me a wort chiller
 
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