Is corn sugar ok to use for a starter? - Home Brew Forums

Register Now!
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Is corn sugar ok to use for a starter?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-07-2008, 07:17 PM   #1
wanabeer
Recipes 
 
Jan 2007
Webberville, Michigan
Posts: 37



I want to brew a 5 gallon, partial mash London Porter tomorrow. And I thought I would try a starter. I have a 35 ml vial of London Ale Yeast.
I was thinking I would use a mason jar and add some water and corn sugar then boil that in a pot of water a couple of inches deep for ten minutes or so. Would the steam in the jar sanitize the whole jar and lid?
And how much sugar should I use? I know DME would be better but I only have LME to use in my porter. Would it be better to use this the LME instead and how much? Thanks!

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2008, 07:21 PM   #2
cheezydemon
Recipes 
 
Jun 2007
The "Ville"
Posts: 1,918
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts


The sugar would be fine, you just would want to consider pouring off the "wort" once the starter is done.

You want it to be fairly weak, so just estimate how much sugar by the size of your jar.
__________________
BOTTLED: "Route 66 IPA" 7% ABV, "Dave's Imperial Stout" 12% ABV , "Spider Imperial Stout" 9%ABV , "Mutt Irish Ale" 7% ABV, "Sorta Sierra" IPA's 4.4% ABV, "Habanero Ales" 5.5% ABV, "Pumpkin Seed Ale" 5.5% ABV , "Marzen" Lager, "Step child Ale",
PRIMARies: "Caramel Amber" , "Black Porter"
SECONDARIES:1 :"Miller Ale"
On DECK: Another Russian Stout

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2008, 07:24 PM   #3
olllllo
[]-O-[]
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
olllllo's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Apr 2006
Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 13,330
Liked 140 Times on 114 Posts


Actually, no it wouldn't.

Lemme find a reference.
__________________
Rabbit And Coyote Schwag
Rob - Phoenix Ambassador to Milwaukee
Where did your avatar go?
Ginger Beer for Moscow Mules Bacon Vodka
Twitter

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2008, 07:30 PM   #4
brewt00l
Recipes 
 
Dec 2006
Doylestown, PA
Posts: 3,725
Liked 12 Times on 12 Posts


You want to use a malt based product so the yeast get conditioned to consume maltose....if you didn't have any lme/dme handy for a starter you can always grab some malta goya from your grocery store's international section.

Use the LME

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2008, 07:30 PM   #5
ohiobrewtus
 
ohiobrewtus's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Nov 2006
Ohio
Posts: 7,785
Liked 62 Times on 54 Posts


I have never done this and I have no facts to back this up, but I wouldn't do it. If I dont have DME (or left over wort) for a starter I'll pitch some Nottingham.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bird
Well, if you *love* it.... again, note that my A.S.S. has five pounds.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2008, 07:37 PM   #6
PseudoChef
 
PseudoChef's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Apr 2007
West Chicago 'Burbs, IL
Posts: 3,406
Liked 110 Times on 81 Posts


No, it's not. If you give the yeast a simple sugar during a starter, then once it hits the wort, it won't ferment a more complex sugar like maltose.

Remember, during a starter you're multiplying yeast -- in effect they're making copies of themselves. So essentially you're making multiple copies of yeast that will not ferment maltose completely.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2008, 07:39 PM   #7
olllllo
[]-O-[]
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
olllllo's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Apr 2006
Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 13,330
Liked 140 Times on 114 Posts


You want the yeast to become accustomed to the maltose sugar.

Paraphrasing from Jamil's most recent show on Belgian Strong Ales.

If you use a simple sugar [for a starter] as the sole food for a yeast it will quickly lose it's ability to ferment maltose. The yeast need to create enzymes to convert maltose.

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/arc...il12-31-07.mp3
Jamil @ 21:40
__________________
Rabbit And Coyote Schwag
Rob - Phoenix Ambassador to Milwaukee
Where did your avatar go?
Ginger Beer for Moscow Mules Bacon Vodka
Twitter

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2008, 07:40 PM   #8
olllllo
[]-O-[]
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
olllllo's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Apr 2006
Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 13,330
Liked 140 Times on 114 Posts


So in essence, you are making a stopper and not a starter.
__________________
Rabbit And Coyote Schwag
Rob - Phoenix Ambassador to Milwaukee
Where did your avatar go?
Ginger Beer for Moscow Mules Bacon Vodka
Twitter

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2008, 07:46 PM   #9
FlyGuy
 
FlyGuy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jan 2007
Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,605
Liked 178 Times on 51 Posts


Nope, you don't want to do that. When yeast are exposed to high levels of simple sugars like glucose, they will preferentially ferment those sugars. This will often cause them to eliminate their reproductive (adaptive) phase to do this -- it is called the "Crabtree effect".

The Crabtree effect is important because it effectively bypasses the growth and reproduction stage of yeast development. The yeast in your starter will not store the energy and cell compounds they require to ferment the sugars in your beer (i.e. maltose) later on. Their growth and reproduction will be stunted, and because of this your starter will have low quantity and quality of yeast which may lead to poor attenuation and off-flavours in your beer. In some cases, the effect can be so bad that you will actually do more harm than good by making a starter from sugar.

Furthermore, corn or table sugar do not have the nutrients that yeast require to grow and multiply, doubly compounding the problem.


 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2008, 09:55 PM   #10
boo boo
Recipes 
 
Jun 2005
Hearts's Delight, Newfoundland
Posts: 4,165
Liked 35 Times on 30 Posts


[quote=cheezydemon]The sugar would be fine, you just would want to consider pouring off the "wort" once the starter is done.
quote]

Sugar is fine for growing yeast but it is not OK if we plan on using that yeast to brew with. The yeast get used to fermenting the simple sugar and then can't work with the more complex sugars contained in the wort.
__________________
How do you BBQ an elephant....first you get your elephant....

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
starter with corn sugar bushmanj Fermentation & Yeast 4 09-17-2009 03:15 PM
Starter using Corn Sugar instead of DME? rking Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 5 06-15-2009 09:42 PM
Starter with Corn Sugar memphomaniac Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 08-30-2008 07:55 PM
Corn Sugar Starter??? bearkluttz Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 08-20-2008 01:16 AM
corn sugar starter lalenny General Techniques 5 04-25-2005 03:42 PM


Forum Jump