Cider 101

Always wanted to try making hard cider. So while on a trip out of town, I stumbled upon "apple valley" in Henderson NC.
Found a place called the cider mill, near chimney rock park and bought 6 gallons. I asked before buying about any preservatives of pasteurization, and I was told they do nothing, just raw pressed cider.
I put the cold gallon containers into the fridge when I got back to the cabin rental.

Then I logged onto HBT, and found that while simple to make cider, that the devil is in the detail.

So the more I read, the more questions developed than were answered.

Hoping to get a few basic answers to these basic questions, or at least some steerage in the right direction.

First off, I do not know the apple varieties or the press date on the cider. The soonest I could add yeast would be this Sunday, six days after buying. All this time it's been unopened in the fridge. I am hoping that this is still acceptable.

The big questions I have are:

Add sugar or no? I will need to measure the brix/SG when I get home, and I understand I should ferment to 1.000. I'd like a 5-5.5% ABV cider when I'm done. I imagine I will need to add some sugar and stop fermentation before its none dry to preserve some sweetness. Are there any hard and fast rules or even rules of thumb to go by here?

Pastuerize or no? I am considering pasteurization in the bottle after fermentation is complete. What are the pros and cons of pastuerizing before pitch vs after? What are pros and cons of pastuerizing in the bottle after some carbonation has developed, and would I need to do this if I pastuerize from the beginning?

Sulfite? As an alternative to heat pasteurization? Again, what are the pros and cons, or should this be considered a necessity from the beginning?

Oxygenation and pitch rates? I assume similar for ale fermentation as far as pitch rates. I understand that there is often sufficient oxygen in the cider already since it has browned and thus no additional oxygen necessary? What about any yeast nutrients?

What about adding ascorbic acid? pectic enzyme? Clarification?

What about back sweetening or adding acid blend to adjust flavor?

Thanks for any help in advance..

TD


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If you want 5-5.5%, no added sugar is likely required.
I'd suggest NOT trying to stop fermentation partway, it's difficult and stops it from clearing due to time constraints. I'd suggest instead to complete fermentation and back sweeten as needed.

If you're bottling, you'll likely want to back sweeten, wait a bit to carb up, then pasteruize as laid out in the sticky.

If kegging, you can back sweeten, ksorb and campden to kill the yeast, then carb up.

I've always used the same pitching rates as ale. Ascorbic acid doesnt matter, pectic enzyme if you want super clear cider and are using fresh pressed, not needed for store bought juice.

Acid blend if you want. Up to you.

I definitely suggest adding yeast nutrient, staggering like mead mazers do.

Your final ABV will be driven by the starting Brix of the juice. Once fermentation starts there really is no reliable way to stop it so letting it go dry then back sweetening works best.

Here's the rub...unless you have kegging equipment you can either have dry, still cider, or dry carbonated cider, or sweet, still cider, but you cannot have sweet, carbonated cider without using force carbonation.

For back sweetening, you add a sugar source (more juice or sugar) then treat with Sorbate (Sorbistat K) and Potassium Metabisulphite (K-meta) to prevent fermentation from restarting.

helibrewer said:

Here's the rub...unless you have kegging equipment you can either have dry, still cider, or dry carbonated cider, or sweet, still cider, but you cannot have sweet, carbonated cider without using force carbonation.

Click to expand...

Or you have sweet, carbonated cider by bottling, waiting, then pasteurizing as described in the sticky.

You've hit on one of the big points of winemaking and cidermaking- it's very simple. But, simple is not easy! I'm writing a winemaking "for beginners" for this forum, but it's not yet done so I'll try to answer the questions with as much detail as "Cider 101" will allow, but still be simple. I hope that's ok!

1. Your cider will ferment as much as it will ferment. Much of this is yeast strain dependent, as wine yeast will ferment a cider as low as .990, while ale yeast might stop at 1.004. Both have happened to me in the the last year- wine yeast (71B-1122) stopped at .990 and S04 stopped at 1.004. Same pressing, same batch of apples, etc. Just different yeast, with no added sugars.

So, if you are hoping for a bit more "apple cider" flavor, perhaps pick an ale yeast you like (S04 isn't great for beer, in my opinion, but it makes a nice clear apply cider!). If you want to get some bone dry tart "wine" characteristics, choose montrachet or 71B. (71B metabolizes more malic acid so if you've got strongly tart apples, that's a good choice).

2. Add sugar, if you want. However, you may want to try a batch sans sugar first, so you have something to compare future batches to. I make apple wine, crabapple wine, hard cider, and everything in between. My husband loves apple wine and crabapple wine, which is boosted to 1.085-1.090. It loses all of the "apple cider" taste and becomes a nice fruity dry white wine, most similar to pinot grigio than any other commercial wine. It does not scream "APPLES" and most people who taste it do not think it's an apple wine, until they are told. The extra fermentables make it much more winelike, which is what he loves. He drinks it as a dry white table wine. The cider, which is 100% fermented apples, is crisp and apple-y and I have it both carbed and non-carbed. People who think "cider" don't think "apple wine" and they are vastly different, mostly because of the sugar added to boost the ABV and lose some of the apple flavor. The choice is yours- but I'd still try a cider without added sugar the first time unless the SG of the juice is ridiculously low. If you've got, say, 1.045 or thereabouts, I would do it as is and use ale yeast.

3. Additives. Pectin enzyme helps to clear the cider, to prevent pectin haze. If you have it, use it, but if not don't sweat it. Most commercial ciders will clear without pectic enzyme. But if you're pressing apples, it helps alot with clarity and to get more juice out of the appes. Things like wine tannin and acid blend are strictly for flavor. I like a "bite" to my apple wine and cider, and if my cider is "flabby" (that's a real winemaking term, in case you were wondering.....) adding a bit helps alot. But it's strictly to taste. If you make your cider, and it's awesome, no need to add those. But if it's a bit bland or boring, they can help. A lot.

4. Sulfites. Sulfites have a bad rap, from people who don't understand them. They are used to kill wild yeast and bacteria initially, in unpasteurized cider (or fruit). They do dissipate relatively quickly, and so the yeast is added 12-24 hours later so fermentation can begin. As they do dissipate, many winemakers will add sulfites at every other racking to keep approximately 50 ppm in their wine. What is great about sulfites is that they work as an antioxidant. That's really the purpose, once fermentation begins. For folks who want a sulfite-free wine, that's really not doable as fermentation itself produces sulfites. But many winemakers will add a bit more (again, at about 50 ppm or less) as an antioxidant as sometimes ciders and wines throw a lot of lees and have to be racked a few times. Sulfites bind with the wine, so that oxygen can't. You can leave them out, of course, once fermentation starts. If you start with pasteurized juice and not fruit, they aren't necessary at the start either. Think of sulfites as replacing the boil in beer- killing unwanted microbes and giving the chosen yeast a chance to outcompete other microbes, but not having lasting effects.

5. Oxygenation and pitch rates. Oxygen is great for yeast reproduction, so oxygenating the must is a good thing. Most dry wine yeast strains have a 6 gram package that is "good for 1-6 gallons" and it really is. Don't worry about this too much, but ensure that your cider or wine must has nutrients for the yeast. Often times a teaspoon of yeast nutrient is exactly what the yeast need to get started. Yeast energizer is comprised of different things and is needed for more tough ferments.

6. Ascorbic acid would be an antioxidant like k-meta(sulfite). I've never used it, so have no comment on how it works, sorry!

7. Backsweetening. First, the term "backsweetening" is often used incorrectly in this forum. The actual meaning to winemakers is to hold back some of the must, before yeast is added, and freeze or otherwise save to backsweeten the wine when done. On this forum, we probably mean "sweetening the finished cider or wine" when that term is used. You won't ever hear me use "backsweeten" that way, though! Anyway, if you want to sweeten your finished cider, you have several choices. A still (uncarbed) sweetened cider is very easy because the cider is stabilized once it is finished and then sweetened to taste. If a sweetened carbonated cider is desired, it can be done in the keg by stabilizing and kegging and force carbing. A sweetened carbed cider done by bottling will require extraneous measures such as bottle pasteurization.

8. Adjusting flavor after fermentation. This is important, as sometimes a finished cider or wine just isn't right. Oh, it may not be bad, but it may be missing something. Sometimes a pinch of wine tannin or a bit of acid blend is all that is needed to make it great, and it can all be done post-fermentation. Sometimes, a cider might be best with both sweetening and acid added- and that can be done post-fermentation as well. Often, adjusting "to taste" really is the best way to do it!

I think that is all you asked for now, but if I can provide more information please just let me know!

^^ this is good stuff...!!!
I am looking forward to the winemaking 101 thread Yooper.

My contribution to this thread is simply to have you check out my thread that I started a couple weeks ago titled "Cider Making - A How To"
It's got some detailed info on amounts of additives for first time cider making.

Check out THIS for a very basic (work in progress) idea for beginning ciderists.

brewkinger said:

^^ this is good stuff...!!!
I am looking forward to the winemaking 101 thread Yooper.

My contribution to this thread is simply to have you check out my thread that I started a couple weeks ago titled "Cider Making - A How To"
It's got some detailed info on amounts of additives for first time cider making.

I would put a link here, but not sure if I can do so on my phone app.

I will try tomorrow.


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Click to expand...

Do you want to compile all of our "stuff" into one easy-to-read post and submit it as an article or "how to", and we can sticky it or make it an article? We seem to be repeating alot of the same old stuff and a simple "how to" would be great!

If so, let me know (or Austin) and we'll clean up some of the old stuff.

Thanks!

Hey everyone and especially Yooper, Thanks! Exactly what I'm looking for. Been brewing for many years and very familiar with the basics and even more complex stuff, but cider is an uncharted wasteland for me. What I thought would be a simple affair, has again become a complicated matter. Thanks for helping to clear the air.

One lingering question I have is this: should I pastuerize the raw cider with heat, or add Campden before fermenting with my chosen yeast, S04?
From what I've read, it could be better without pasteurization flavor wise.
I am shooting for a commercial type apply, semi dry, sparkling clear cider.
Bottling would be nice, but kegging and even counter pressure bottling are possible. I would like to share some via bottles. It sound like it might be easiest to let fully ferment to dryness, adjust flavor with acid blend or tannin if necessary, and add sweetness with lactose or something similar if necessary(*). Then I could keg and force carb and sample again and if it is tasting good I could serve from keg, and/or bottle. One concern I would have about adding sweetness to a cider that ferments too dry to my liking and then giving away bottles, is that any wild yeasts could potentially ferment the lactose or maltodextrin even and they could have bottle bombs. Campden tablets might be the answer to that dilemma.

I will search for the other article/post mentioned. Appreciate all help.
One last concern I have is that the cider was blended for taste raw, not fermented, and might be lacking tartness for balance in flavor. I'm thinking to buy a bit of acid blend and tannin just in case. I think I still have some pectin enzyme from 2005 when I made my first and only mead to date. Is that stuff still good do you think? It's been in fridge the whole time.

Awesome stuff Yooper!! Thanks from a former troll!

TD


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TrickyDick said:

One lingering question I have is this: should I pastuerize the raw cider with heat, or add Campden before fermenting with my chosen yeast, S04?
From what I've read, it could be better without pasteurization flavor wise.
I am shooting for a commercial type apply, semi dry, sparkling clear cider.
Bottling would be nice, but kegging and even counter pressure bottling are possible. I would like to share some via bottles. It sound like it might be easiest to let fully ferment to dryness, adjust flavor with acid blend or tannin if necessary, and add sweetness with lactose or something similar if necessary(*). Then I could keg and force carb and sample again and if it is tasting good I could serve from keg, and/or bottle. One concern I would have about adding sweetness to a cider that ferments too dry to my liking and then giving away bottles, is that any wild yeasts could potentially ferment the lactose or maltodextrin even and they could have bottle bombs. Campden tablets might be the answer to that dilemma.

I will search for the other article/post mentioned. Appreciate all help.
One last concern I have is that the cider was blended for taste raw, not fermented, and might be lacking tartness for balance in flavor. I'm thinking to buy a bit of acid blend and tannin just in case. I think I still have some pectin enzyme from 2005 when I made my first and only mead to date. Is that stuff still good do you think? It's been in fridge the whole time.

Awesome stuff Yooper!! Thanks from a former troll!

TD
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Click to expand...

My research on these questions (and my disclaimer is that it is all research and very little first hand knowledge)

Heat pasteurization is tricky because you don't want to boil and cause pectin haze BUT this is moot if you don't care about the "look" of the cider. There is also a flavor effect due to the pectic haze/clarity issue that CvilleKevin has indicated.
(By the way, check out his LINK here for a HUGE cider experiment that he has done)

The Campden / K-meta issue also has two (or more) schools of thought.
It ultimately seems to depend on your level of risk taking comfort. Kill off wild yeast and bacteria and give your chosen yeast the advantage OR let it ride and let them duke it out.
Research has shown those that argue flavor changes from use of these things and those that counter argue no flavor problems.
The sulfate sensitive people are a concern here, as their allergy is a consideration.

Hope this helps..!




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I use campden when making up my musts for cider and apple wine. It's nice because it does the job without heat, and still dissipates relatively quickly. That's what I do- use campden, and 12 hours later add some pectic enzyme, and then 12 hour laters add the S04 yeast.

You may find (as I did) that S04 leaves a bright tart, not-too-dry finish but you can always sweeten to taste when fermentation is done. Pappers made a sticky on bottle pasteurization, if you want to have some residual sweetness and carbonation in the bottles you give away. That'd be worth a read. I've never done it, as I don't like sweet cider or wines, but he has photos in there and everything.

TrickyDick said:

Add sugar or no? I will need to measure the brix/SG when I get home, and I understand I should ferment to 1.000. I'd like a 5-5.5% ABV cider when I'm done. I imagine I will need to add some sugar and stop fermentation before its none dry to preserve some sweetness. Are there any hard and fast rules or even rules of thumb to go by here?

Click to expand...

You will get between 5.5 and 6% ABV without adding any sugar at all.

Depending on your yeast, you might even get down to 0.990 - completely dry.

1.000 doesn't have any sweetness left, anyhow, even if the yeast does stop there.

My advice is to not try to be the captain of a nuclear submarine before you first understand how to row a boat. In other words, just ferment without sugar and don't try carbonation or sweetening. Just figure out how fermentation itself functions, and then add to your process one step at a time from there.

podz said:

You will get between 5.5 and 6% ABV without adding any sugar at all.

My advice is to not try to be the captain of a nuclear submarine before you first understand how to row a boat. In other words, just ferment without sugar and don't try carbonation or sweetening. Just figure out how fermentation itself functions, and then add to your process one step at a time from there.

Click to expand...

Totally agree with THIS ^^

I made a couple of batches of cider last year, cannot even remember what yeast I used (Nottingham I think).

Produced dry, tasteless wine with FG of 0.998 that I Jedi mind tricked myself into tasting apples because I knew that I used apple cider to make it.

K-sorbate to kill the yeast and then added 4 cans of frozen raspberry-apple concentrate and bottled.
Voila, the first homemade alcohol that I convinced my non-beer drinking wife to try and she ENJOYED it immensely. So much so that she asked me to make cider again this year (I have 13 gallons going at the moment).

I gained an understanding of the process with the first batches and am going to experiment a little bit with all 13 gallons of the current stuff.

Plan on:
1) bottling bottling/carbonating some sweet stuff (OG of 1.010 -1.015) and pasterizing (still a little hesitant on this as i hate bottle bombs)

2) let it ferment completely and bottle some dry apfelwein

3) backsweeten with 1-2 gallons of original cider that I froze

I want to discover and learn about each step to find likes and dislikes.:rockin:

Hey.

Thanks for all the helpful information. There is a ton of information in the sticky threads that I do intend to read. However, given that I unexpectedly ran across some fresh cider and bought it, I'm under the gun a bit to get the process started before the wild yeasts take matters into their own hands.

No added sugar for this first row boat effort. Besides, 5.5-6.0 is perfect ballpark range.

I think that I will use Campden first, and I will also use pectin afterward. I will also be using S04. If needed I am thinking that I could add back some sweetness to taste with a non fermentable sugar such as maltodextrin, to prevent lactose intolerant problems. I suppose I could also do a second round of Campden after a cold crash followed by k Sorbate and then plain sugar. Hopefully I'll like the flavor and can avoid all that sweetening. I plan to keg and serve on draft with perhaps a few bottles filled with beer gun after carbonation.

Thanks for the helpful advice! EXACTLY what I was looking for!

Last off, what's a good ferm temp for s04? 68? 65?

TD


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My buddy and keep it simple and old fashion. Press apples (all varieties including crab, the crab apples is what will give it the flavor). Put juice in fermentors and let nature do its thing through the winter and spring. Mix all in a large bottling bucket with frozen apple concentrate for priming sugar. Of course we like it dry and tart, it is really refreshing on a hot day.

65 sounds about right.


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TrickyDick said:

Hey.

Thanks for all the helpful information. There is a ton of information in the sticky threads that I do intend to read. However, given that I unexpectedly ran across some fresh cider and bought it, I'm under the gun a bit to get the process started before the wild yeasts take matters into their own hands.

No added sugar for this first row boat effort. Besides, 5.5-6.0 is perfect ballpark range.

I think that I will use Campden first, and I will also use pectin afterward. I will also be using S04. If needed I am thinking that I could add back some sweetness to taste with a non fermentable sugar such as maltodextrin, to prevent lactose intolerant problems. I suppose I could also do a second round of Campden after a cold crash followed by k Sorbate and then plain sugar. Hopefully I'll like the flavor and can avoid all that sweetening. I plan to keg and serve on draft with perhaps a few bottles filled with beer gun after carbonation.

Thanks for the helpful advice! EXACTLY what I was looking for!

Last off, what's a good ferm temp for s04? 68? 65?

TD


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Click to expand...

Malto is fine and all, but it'll have some other side affects besides sweetness as well. Since you're kegging I'd suggest using either apple juice concentrate, dry cider can have very little apple flavor, or plain sugar if all you're after is sweetness without flavor changing.

Ok. Thanks again. I think I'll let it go and wait and see, come bottling time (and really does it need to wait until spring??) I'll taste and see how sweet it is. Hopefully I'll like it as is and can keep it simple.




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In 2012 I added lactose to sweeten my cider. It is delicious. Cider needs time. Don't plan on drinking it for 6 mos. minimum and at 2 years it can really come into its own.

I've had 3 week old cider and it was fine, and then I tried 8 month old cider and it was amazing. I'd suggest getting a cheap simple recipe going to hold you over, and then reusing the yeast to make another batch and hide that one away till your keg kicks.

Ok.

So when I get the cider home I'm putting into fridge until Monday when I can get some campden tablets. Crush one tablet and add directly to the gallon container, or all in bulk? Suppose it probably doesn't matter too much. How long to wait after campden tablet before oxygenation and yeast pitching?

TD


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OK,

Campden tablets on hand now.
Do I crush them before adding?
is it OK to add to cider in the gallon containers, or do they need to vent the released gas, and if so, is this safe to do in a fridge without stinking everything up?
Would it be better to add in bulk to fermentation bucket, and then affix an airlock after adding the campden tabs?

Plan is to follow the advice of Yooper and add tabs, wait 12 hours and add pectin enzyme (how much by the way? mine is a powder), wait another 12 hours, and give a blast of oxygen and add the rehydrated S04 yeast.

How much krausen can I expect? blow off tube? Ferm-cap? I have an 8 gallon bucket and a little over 5.5 gallons of cider.

Thanks.

TD

TrickyDick said:

OK,

Campden tablets on hand now.
Do I crush them before adding?
is it OK to add to cider in the gallon containers, or do they need to vent the released gas, and if so, is this safe to do in a fridge without stinking everything up?
Would it be better to add in bulk to fermentation bucket, and then affix an airlock after adding the campden tabs?

Plan is to follow the advice of Yooper and add tabs, wait 12 hours and add pectin enzyme (how much by the way? mine is a powder), wait another 12 hours, and give a blast of oxygen and add the rehydrated S04 yeast.

How much krausen can I expect? blow off tube? Ferm-cap? I have an 8 gallon bucket and a little over 5.5 gallons of cider.

Thanks.

TD

Click to expand...

Yes, crush them and dissolve in some hot water before adding- 1/4 cup or less is fine, just so it's dissolved. It doesn't matter how, not really. dont worry about it- do whatever is easiest for you.

1 teaspoon per gallon is about the recommended dose- but if you have extraordinarily cloudy cider, 6 teaspoons for 5 gallons would be ok.

You have plenty of headspace. Right now I have a rampant fermentation going with 3 gallons of cider and have it in a 5 gallon carboy, with at least a gallon of headspace left. it forms very little krausen, but does foam a bit.

My cider is rather cloudy and has some bits and pieces in it I think as well. Not much.

So sounds like I should put it into my primary bucket first, then add the tabs.

My tablets are 1/8 tsp per tablet. so 8 tabs per gallon gives me about 44 tablets for the 5.5 gallon batch. And here I thought I was saving money buy getting a bulk pack of 100 tabs....

Thanks

TD

TrickyDick said:

My cider is rather cloudy and has some bits and pieces in it I think as well. Not much.

So sounds like I should put it into my primary bucket first, then add the tabs.

My tablets are 1/8 tsp per tablet. so 8 tabs per gallon gives me about 44 tablets for the 5.5 gallon batch. And here I thought I was saving money buy getting a bulk pack of 100 tabs....

Thanks

TD

Click to expand...

Hold up....
1/8 tsp of what?


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Don't add 44 Campden tablets just yet...



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Umm yeah... I think I need to do a bit more research.

Here is what I have:

https://storefront.ldcarlson.com/st...03&order-uom=&warehouse-id=2&item-number=6003

Right..

One of those tablets PER gallon of cider will give you 1/8tsp of metabisulfite
(which is the dosage of powdered K-meta)

So 5.5 gallons of cider needs 5.5 crushed tablets.

44 would have been troublesome.
Lol


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Thanks!
That would've been a terrible mistake.

TD

Good catch Brewkinger.

Can't wait for your Cider FAQ/How to yooper.

I recently had an infection on two batches of cider, looked like a brett/lacto combo. Ended up bottling some of it and dumping some of it. It tasted okay at the time, was for a reception so needed to get rid of it ASAP if it didn't taste too bad.

I don't have any carboys, but I'm starting to put together a keg setup. Is that sufficient for aging, or should I get a 5G carboy as well? I'm not a big fan of carboys, while kegs seem multi functional and keep me from having to rack again

So I poured the cider into a sanitized bucket last night and added 6 crushed tablets to the approximate 5.5-5.75 gallons (we kept some of the cider in fridge to drink). I took some from the last jug to measure the brix on an atc refractometer in the basement fluorescent lighting. It was 9, but not entirely sure how accurate that is. I forgot to dissolve the crushed tablet in water and sprinkled it on top and let it hydrate a bit, then stirred gently with a sanitized spoon. I think tonight, I'm going to take a hydrometer sample from the blended cider, which I suppose is more accurately called must? Brix of 9 seems low, and I wonder if the fridge temp cider 38-40° combined with the fluorescent lighting was throwing it off..
Planning to use safale s04.
TD


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I've stopped measuring my OG, it's pretty much always 1.050 or at least within 0.005. I'm not fmiliar enough with refractometer to comment on the temperature dependence.

Equates to 1.035. I suspect the measurement is erroneous.


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TrickyDick said:

So I poured the cider into a sanitized bucket last night and added 6 crushed tablets to the approximate 5.5-5.75 gallons (we kept some of the cider in fridge to drink). I took some from the last jug to measure the brix on an atc refractometer in the basement fluorescent lighting. It was 9, but not entirely sure how accurate that is. I forgot to dissolve the crushed tablet in water and sprinkled it on top and let it hydrate a bit, then stirred gently with a sanitized spoon. I think tonight, I'm going to take a hydrometer sample from the blended cider, which I suppose is more accurately called must? Brix of 9 seems low, and I wonder if the fridge temp cider 38-40° combined with the fluorescent lighting was throwing it off..
Planning to use safale s04.
TD


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Click to expand...

Before you add the yeast, it is 'must'. After the yeast, it's 'hard cider' or 'cider'.

9 brix does seem low. Did you recheck it with a hydrometer?

Rechecked with an el-cheapo hydrometer and was 1.050 at about 75 degrees room temp.

I added the pectin enzyme last night.

Need to bottle some Kegged beer in the dual purpose ferm & serve fridge before I can chill and pitch yeast tonight, so maybe Friday morning before I can pitch.

TD


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edit-

well life got in the way. Lost the stupid tip to my beer gun, rinsed down the drain. The freezer where I was planning to ferment the cider was holding the kegs to be bottled. Finally got cider into fridge last night and there was significant frost. This morning it was a good 10 degrees below where I had it set. Looked up the specs on my yeast and says its good down to 53, so I pitched (at 56), Freezer set to 67 as it tends to overshoot the temp setpoint and the beer gets a few degrees colder than the setpoint. Have the temp probe taped to the side of my plastic bucket with foil duct tape (not the tacky duck tape stuff). Oxygenated and pitched this morning with a few drops of ferm-cap and a half tsp of yeast nutrient. Should've just put it into my chilled conical, but didn't want to expose the plastic to potential wild yeasts or bugs. Now I wait.

How long to expect for primary to finish? Normally at ale temps 3-4 days seems to do it. This is a bit cooler though. 7-10 days? Then rack for aging? Is it critically important to control the temp while aging? I tend to let my beer sit at room temp in most instances after primary fermentation is finished and its been racked into a keg or carboy, typically about 74-78 degrees (part of the ongoing thermostat battle with SWMBO). If I rack to a keg instead of a carboy, I could put it in my serving fridge at 36º(?).

Thanks

TD

Ok 7 days into primary fermentation, I'm looking at 1.006 SG, down from 1.050. I de-aerated it by pouring 15 times from one glass to another then into hydrometer. no more bubbles seen.

Tasting the hydrometer sample I note it is cloudy, and pale yellow colored, and has lost some of the darker brown cidery color, likely due to suspended yeast?
Aroma is slightly vinous and apple-like. I think its got a tiny twang to it, but really not much. So, what's next? Time to rack? Crash cool then rack?

Thanks for the help.

TD

I am looking to get a sweet still cider. I am fermenting with D47. After the fermentation stops, can you please reccomend how I sweaten and with what? Do I need to add Potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfite before sweetening?

I recently started a cider. I used:

14 cans frozen (thawed, room temp) concentrate (Wal-mart Brand) - fill to 5 gallons
Yeast Nutrient & Energizer
Monterey Jack Cider Yeast (M02)

OG: 1.050 10/13/14
FG: 1.002 10/26/14

It fully fermented in 1 week (under 7 days). I waited for it to clear quite a bit, and then racked into another carboy. It doesn't taste great right now, so I'm hoping that just giving it time will bring it around. Not much apple flavor or aroma - very boring.

Very interesting read by Yooper above. I will keep in mind S04 for future endeavors. Question about that: what temperature do you ferment the S04 at?

TrickyDick said:

Ok 7 days into primary fermentation, I'm looking at 1.006 SG, down from 1.050. I de-aerated it by pouring 15 times from one glass to another then into hydrometer. no more bubbles seen.

Tasting the hydrometer sample I note it is cloudy, and pale yellow colored, and has lost some of the darker brown cidery color, likely due to suspended yeast?
Aroma is slightly vinous and apple-like. I think its got a tiny twang to it, but really not much. So, what's next? Time to rack? Crash cool then rack?

Thanks for the help.

TD

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I don't crash cool, but you certainly can if you want. I don't recall which yeast strain you used- it could go quite a bit lower. If you crash cool and keg, it should stay where it is. If you're going to bottle, I'd definitely make sure it is done first.

kevinb said:

I am looking to get a sweet still cider. I am fermenting with D47. After the fermentation stops, can you please reccomend how I sweaten and with what? Do I need to add Potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfite before sweetening?

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Once the cider is completely and totally clear, like read a newspaper through it clear, you can rack to a new vessel into which sorbate and k-meta have been dissolved. Use 1/4 teaspoon of k-meta powder for 6 gallons (or divide, according to your batch size) and 1/2 teaspoon of sorbate per gallon of cider. Let that sit a few days, to ensure it stays clear, and then sweeten to taste. Then, let that sit a few more days to ensure no fermentation starts again, and then bottle.

The way that this "works" is that sorbate inhibits yeast reproduction. That's why you have to wait until the cider is clear, and most of the yeast has fallen out. Then, it's racked off of the lees and the sorbate should stop the yeast from reproducing and so it can't ferment the new sweetener. In an active fermentation or when the cider is cloudy with suspended yeast, the yeast don't need to reproduce so the sorbate "work".

I hope that helps!

Yooper said:

I don't crash cool, but you certainly can if you want. I don't recall which yeast strain you used- it could go quite a bit lower. If you crash cool and keg, it should stay where it is. If you're going to bottle, I'd definitely make sure it is done first.




Once the cider is completely and totally clear, like read a newspaper through it clear, you can rack to a new vessel into which sorbate and k-meta have been dissolved. Use 1/4 teaspoon of k-meta powder for 6 gallons (or divide, according to your batch size) and 1/2 teaspoon of sorbate per gallon of cider. Let that sit a few days, to ensure it stays clear, and then sweeten to taste. Then, let that sit a few more days to ensure no fermentation starts again, and then bottle.

The way that this "works" is that sorbate inhibits yeast reproduction. That's why you have to wait until the cider is clear, and most of the yeast has fallen out. Then, it's racked off of the lees and the sorbate should stop the yeast from reproducing and so it can't ferment the new sweetener. In an active fermentation or when the cider is cloudy with suspended yeast, the yeast don't need to reproduce so the sorbate "work".

I hope that helps!

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Thanks Yooper that helps a lot. Only question is on the k-meta. I am only doing a 1 gallon trial batch. Based on your instructions that would be 1/24 of a teaspoon. That seems like a very small amount. Is that correct? How many teaspoons is one campden tablet?

Thanks Yooper!

I am going to crash it. I used safale s04. The sample was incredibly cloudy, and its near fully attenuation I think, and has some residual sweetness.

Need to rack it in a bit and then let it rest for a spell.

Thanks! Something different is always fun!

TD