Need help cooling wort!

Ok fellow brewers what is everyone doing to cool their wort? I spent just about 4hrs yesterday making a German Oktoberfest from brewers best. It seems like that is way too long for an extract kit with a 60 min boil. Actually it didn't even get all the way down to temp it was like 8 degrees off for pitching. I pitched it anyway and put it in my fermentation fridge and it is sitting at a nice 58-60 degrees. It was a lager yeast.

Most of the time was spent chilling the wort. I dumped two gallons of chilled water in the pail with the wort which dropped it to 100 degrees. I usually do 2.5 gal wort and 2.5 gal water in pail. Should I go to a 2 gal wort and 3 gal addition?

I have a 3/8" chiller that I made. I'm also thinking that I may need to make/buy a 1/2" chiller.

I'm thinking that this should take at most 3 hrs.


Keg #1 - Brewers Best American Ale
Keg #2 - Brewers Best Kolsch
Keg #3 - Harpoon IPA
Primary #1- Midwest Mexican creveza
Primary #2- Midwest Honey Ale
Secondary #1-
Secondary #2-
Yeah I do kits!

You are using an immersion chiller? Should do the job unless the length is very short or your tap water is not very cold.
You could go with a prechiller set up. Would require another immersion chiller in a tub filled with ice and water and a pump to move the chilled water.
Can you set your boiled wort in a tub of ice and water to cool it?

flars said:

You are using an immersion chiller? Should do the job unless the length is very short or your tap water is not very cold.

You could go with a prechiller set up. Would require another immersion chiller in a tub filled with ice and water and a pump to move the chilled water.

Can you set your boiled wort in a tub of ice and water to cool it?

Click to expand...

My chiller is 3/8" x 50' pretty small. I really should get a better one. I wanted to try making one so I did but it really is too small. The water seems cold enough. I may also go the route of a small pond pump to recirc cold water from a cooler of ice.



Keg #1 - Brewers Best American Ale
Keg #2 - Brewers Best Kolsch
Keg #3 - Harpoon IPA
Primary #1- Midwest Mexican creveza
Primary #2- Midwest Honey Ale
Secondary #1-
Secondary #2-
Yeah I do kits!

ShockedHop said:

My chiller is 3/8" x 50' pretty small. I really should get a better one. I wanted to try making one so I did but it really is too small. The water seems cold enough. I may also go the route of a small pond pump to recirc cold water from a cooler of ice.



Keg #1 - Brewers Best American Ale
Keg #2 - Brewers Best Kolsch
Keg #3 - Harpoon IPA
Primary #1- Midwest Mexican creveza
Primary #2- Midwest Honey Ale
Secondary #1-
Secondary #2-
Yeah I do kits!

Click to expand...

3/8" x 50' is a large chiller. Some make a chiller inside a chiller, but that will cause problems with whirl pooling if you do that.
What is the temp of your tap water? Our well produces 48°F year round.

If putting the boil kettle in an ice bath in the kitchen sink doesn't work try a slow stir while using the chiller. This will expose more warm wort to the coils.

flars said:

3/8" x 50' is a large chiller. Some make a chiller inside a chiller, but that will cause problems with whirl pooling if you do that.

What is the temp of your tap water? Our well produces 48°F year round.



If putting the boil kettle in an ice bath in the kitchen sink doesn't work try a slow stir while using the chiller. This will expose more warm wort to the coils.

Click to expand...

Actually it was 25' not 50'. My mistake. But I was thinking It was my first time trying the cold water into the wort. So I put that in first and then used the chiller. That was probably my problem. 😓


Keg #1 - Brewers Best American Ale
Keg #2 - Brewers Best Kolsch
Keg #3 - Harpoon IPA
Keg #4 - DK Honey Ale (Midwest Honey Ale)
Primary #1- German Oktoberfest
Primary #2-
Secondary #1-Midwest Mexican creveza
Secondary #2-
Yeah I do kits!

You could make a 50' chiller and use your 25' chiller as the "pre-chiller." You could just use an icewater bath to cool your tap water more than it already is. I'm thinking of doing that myself to help cool my tap water.

I had the same problem yesterday only I went through 40 or so pounds of ice before giving up.

If you have a 25' wort chiller you should have that amount of wort down to 90 or so degrees in 20 or so minutes, at least that's my experience. I have not even used an ice bath since I got my hands on a wort chiller. But I would think 20-30 minutes tops with a 25' wort chiller + 2 gallons of cold water and you should have been fine. I'm guessing your water through your wort chiller is not cold enough for some reason. My wort chiller is a 25' economy one and it cools full boils down to pitchable temps in around a half hour.

ShockedHop said:

Actually it was 25' not 50'. My mistake. But I was thinking It was my first time trying the cold water into the wort. So I put that in first and then used the chiller. That was probably my problem. 😓
!

Click to expand...

Yep. Keep in mind that chiller efficiency isn't just about surface area, it's about temperature differential too. They chill more rapidly with a large differential between the wort and source water. The chill rate is a curve that flattens out as the two temperatures converge. So of you're doing a partial boil and adding chilled water, use your chiller FIRST when it's most effective. When you notice the rate of chilling drop off, then add your top off water which should have much more effect at this point...



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+1 I agree. I have a 25' chiller. Last night I chilled 5 gallons to 70 degrees in less then 20 min. Try stirring the chiller while in the liquid. Seems to help drop the temp quicker.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I think I'm gonna chill the wort itself next time and add my top off water after it gets to like 100 or so. I'll see how that goes.


Keg #1 - Brewers Best American Ale
Keg #2 - Brewers Best Kolsch
Keg #3 - Harpoon IPA
Keg #4 - DK Honey Ale (Midwest Honey Ale)
Primary #1- German Oktoberfest
Primary #2-
Secondary #1-Midwest Mexican creveza
Secondary #2-
Yeah I do kits!

Make sure you are stirring in the opposite direction of the water flow. It should cool very quickly at that point.

I live in Los Angeles and it's been pretty warm here lately. Also, my tap water is fairly warm, like low 70s. I too have trouble getting down to pitching temp. I've had good success with the immersion chiller and swirling it around in he wort to make sure I'm getting all the warm spots, but it's those last few degrees I have trouble getting to. I wonder what would happen if you put the cooled wort in your fermentor, put that in a keg tub filled with ice water and let that set for a while? Does the wort need to be combined with the yeast right away or is there a window?


Johnny B

jbuckhead said:

I live in Los Angeles and it's been pretty warm here lately. Also, my tap water is fairly warm, like low 70s. I too have trouble getting down to pitching temp. I've had good success with the immersion chiller and swirling it around in he wort to make sure I'm getting all the warm spots, but it's those last few degrees I have trouble getting to. I wonder what would happen if you put the cooled wort in your fermentor, put that in a keg tub filled with ice water and let that set for a while? Does the wort need to be combined with the yeast right away or is there a window?


Johnny B

Click to expand...

Depending on how hot it is, you may fracture your fermenter if it's glass.

jbuckhead said:

I live in Los Angeles and it's been pretty warm here lately. Also, my tap water is fairly warm, like low 70s. I too have trouble getting down to pitching temp. I've had good success with the immersion chiller and swirling it around in he wort to make sure I'm getting all the warm spots, but it's those last few degrees I have trouble getting to. I wonder what would happen if you put the cooled wort in your fermentor, put that in a keg tub filled with ice water and let that set for a while? Does the wort need to be combined with the yeast right away or is there a window?


Johnny B

Click to expand...

This is what I would recommend. In the summer my tap water is in the mid 70's so I usually just chill the wort to around 85-90, transfer to the fermenter, and throw it in the fridge overnight (or until it gets to the mid to low 60's). Then I aerate and pitch the yeast. As long as you've sanitized, an extra 8 hours or so before you pitch isn't going to hurt anything.

But for the OP if you're doing top off water, then definitely chill the boil volume with the chiller then add cold water once it's below 90F or 100F. You could even freeze your top up water and add it as ice.

All good suggestions here, although the order in which you should be chilling is not consistent.

1. Bring the kettle temp down as far as it will go with your IC using regular cold tap water. Pre-chilling is a total waste of ice at this point.
2. Once it is within 10-20°F from your domestic tap water temp, start pre-chilling or circulating with an ice bath to get it down as far as you want.
3. If you use cold top-up water, add half of it to your fermentor, add the chilled wort, then top up with more cold water until you reach your volume or target gravity.

peterj said:

This is what I would recommend. In the summer my tap water is in the mid 70's so I usually just chill the wort to around 85-90, transfer to the fermenter, and throw it in the fridge overnight (or until it gets to the mid to low 60's). Then I aerate and pitch the yeast. As long as you've sanitized, an extra 8 hours or so before you pitch isn't going to hurt anything.



But for the OP if you're doing top off water, then definitely chill the boil volume with the chiller then add cold water once it's below 90F or 100F. You could even freeze your top up water and add it as ice.

Click to expand...

~8 hrs... That's the piece of info I was looking for.


Johnny B

Instead of top off water, I use ice.

I get it from a boil to 60F in 5.6 seconds.

Kroger (local big box here) claims to have 100% pure ice, no chemicals. I use a 21 lb bag and pitch my boiling wort on the ice and yeast.

Doesn't work for a full 5 gallon boil, but I don't do a full boil.

Cheers!

jbuckhead said:

~8 hrs... That's the piece of info I was looking for.


Johnny B

Click to expand...

That's not a hard fast "rule". Certainly if your process was pretty clean you can do this without ill effect but it's not ideal. Brewing is all about maximizing you chance for success, and minimizing your chance for problems. Ideally this means rapidly chilled wort pitched and aerated as soon as possible. If this can't happen because of circumstance, relax and don't worry. But you should always strive to improve toward the ideal situation, not settle for good enough...


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I live in Houston and enjoy 80F tap water during the summer, so here's my setup...

I hook up my 3/8x25ft copper tube immersion chiller to the tap, the other end drains into the washing machine. Meanwhile, I have a 10 gal coleman cooler with a submersible pump and ice. I usually freeze a couple 2 gallon pails of water a few days before and empty my ice maker's bucket.

The tap water will cool the wort down to the low 100's within 10 min, I also stir the wort against the flow of the chiller. When the temp gets around 110F I move the chiller outflow into the ice cooler to start filling it up. Once its full, I move the input hose of the chiller to the outflow of the pump. So now the ice water is circulating from the cooler to the chiller and back.

The wort will be below 80F within 10 min.

I made a quick video, here's the link...



I used a 1/2hp sub pump from harbor freight. Don't get the little pond pumps, they wont work. The 1/2 provides plenty of flow. They have clean and dirty water pumps, I got the dirty water but I don't think it matters.

Usually by the time Im done cleaning up all the ice has melted and I just pump the water from the cooler to the washing machine. Oh and I try to time a load of laundry on brewday, haha.

Im brewing tomorrow so Ill try to remember to take a picture

Thanks for the video. I tried that set up with a drill powered pump. But it was a pain in the ass. I'll probably go the route you did thanks for the help.


Keg #1 - Brewers Best American Ale
Keg #2 - Brewers Best Kolsch
Keg #3 - Harpoon IPA
Keg #4 - DK Honey Ale (Midwest Honey Ale)
Primary #1- German Oktoberfest
Primary #2-
Secondary #1-Midwest Mexican creveza
Secondary #2-
Yeah I do kits!

Don't mean to hijack this thread but I was wondering if this idea would work. Could you put a smaller pot/container (sanitized) into the wort in the bigger kettle and fill that with ice (or already have it filled with ice) and at the same time have the bigger kettle in a water/ice bath? I want to cool my wort down without wasting so much water.

monkeyman1000 said:

Don't mean to hijack this thread but I was wondering if this idea would work. Could you put a smaller pot/container (sanitized) into the wort in the bigger kettle and fill that with ice (or already have it filled with ice) and at the same time have the bigger kettle in a water/ice bath? I want to cool my wort down without wasting so much water.

Click to expand...

I used to do that or something similar but it was still taking up to an hour to chill the wort to 80F. Before I started using the system I have now I was considering adding rock salt to the outside ice bath to get the water below freezing but not sure if it would do any good. These methods work great for partial mash or extract but are a real challenge for all grain brews especially in warm climates.

Although the way I do it is more of a hassle, I don't waste any water. All the water I use goes right into the washing machine until the next load of laundry. You'll be surprised how much water one load uses.

If you're concerned about wasting water just chill with your immersion chiller until the rate of chill slows, transfer to your fermenter, seal and stick it in the fridge. It will take hours, but you won't waste water. Most brewers are more concerned about minimizing chill time...


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I want the faster chill time as well. I'm also very tight on space so I left my immersion chiller in storage back home. I am a medical traveler so I am in a new place every 3-6 months. My wife and I have to pack everything into a Hyundai Santa Fe. I have another small mixing bowl (stainless) that I could but ice into and put that into the 4 gallon brew pot that is in an ice bath. I would do the fridge thing but I would be afraid I would bring up the temp of the food into bacteria range ( even at a modest wort temp range) but maybe not. The washing machine idea is great and when we finally settle down that might be the best option.
The regular cool water to ice bath is taking me about 40 minutes to cool down my wort from boiling to 62 degrees. That is with me adding cold water and stirring the wort every so often. The water temp in the current place is about 62 out of the tap. Just wondering, would like to knock about 20 minutes off that time. I might try it on my next brew. I'm thinking of something like a hop spider but with maybe some removable thin stainless steel cylinders that you could fill with ice and switch out once the ice melts.

monkeyman1000 said:

I want the faster chill time as well. I'm also very tight on space so I left my immersion chiller in storage back home. I am a medical traveler so I am in a new place every 3-6 months. My wife and I have to pack everything into a Hyundai Santa Fe. I have another small mixing bowl (stainless) that I could but ice into and put that into the 4 gallon brew pot that is in an ice bath. I would do the fridge thing but I would be afraid I would bring up the temp of the food into bacteria range ( even at a modest wort temp range) but maybe not. The washing machine idea is great and when we finally settle down that might be the best option.
The regular cool water to ice bath is taking me about 40 minutes to cool down my wort from boiling to 62 degrees. That is with me adding cold water and stirring the wort every so often. The water temp in the current place is about 62 out of the tap. Just wondering, would like to knock about 20 minutes off that time. I might try it on my next brew. I'm thinking of something like a hop spider but with maybe some removable thin stainless steel cylinders that you could fill with ice and switch out once the ice melts.

Click to expand...

I used 3 aluminum drink containers with threaded caps. I would fill them 3/4 or so with water and freeze with the cap off. When chilling, I put the caps on put them in the middle of my chiller and swirled the wort on the outside. With the hassle of trying to keep them from floating all over, it didn't work well for me and I didn't have much luck reducing chill times. Maybe if I could have secured them better I may have had better luck.