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01-31-2008, 04:56 PM   #11
pjj2ba
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by delboy I've came across this before, the guys math is out by a thousand fold (he's got confused between litres and ml), it should be 0.083ml, just in case anybody wanted to try this.
Off by a million fold!

Actually its more than that (please check my math)

300 ml per 4500 l (0.3 l / 4500 l) is = .000067 l / l or 0.067 ml/l.

1 gal is 3.78 l so 5 gal is 18.9 l

0.067ml X 18.9 l = 1.26 ml per 5 gal batch or pretty darn close to 1 drop
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01-31-2008, 05:00 PM   #12
brewt00l
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01-31-2008, 05:14 PM   #13
mrkristofo

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Easy on the calculations guys...He added 300mL to 4500L of yeast for pitching. By the numbers pjj2ba calculated, 0.067mL/L, so for pitching a 300mL slurry of yeast from a starter that puts the numbers at 20µL per batch...not 1.26mL. It was only 63 times too much...no big deal
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01-31-2008, 05:48 PM   #14
sause
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So he pitches over 1100 gallons of yeast? I think the article ment 4500mL.
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01-31-2008, 05:58 PM   #15
ohiobrewtus

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by sause So he pitches over 1100 gallons of yeast? I think the article ment 4500mL.
Heh... I was thinking the same thing as I read it. Obviously it would be difficult to properly apply this to 5 gallon batches, but the science of it makes good sense and is quite fascinating.
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01-31-2008, 06:50 PM   #16
mrkristofo

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by sause So he pitches over 1100 gallons of yeast? I think the article ment 4500mL.
Actually...4500L of yeast is very reasonable when you consider NB has 8 600bbl fermentation tanks at construction of the brewery in 2001. That's 148,800 gallons of fermentation volume.

For 4800bbl of wort, 4500L of slurry at 1.2billion cells/mL is right at the perfect pitching rate (9.59 million cells/mL) for the gravity that NBB brews.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/pitch_rate.cfm

300mL in 4500mL is an awful lot of oil to be adding to yeast.
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01-31-2008, 10:37 PM   #17
Bsquared

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by pjj2ba Off by a million fold! Actually its more than that (please check my math) 300 ml per 4500 l (0.3 l / 4500 l) is = .000067 l / l or 0.067 ml/l. 1 gal is 3.78 l so 5 gal is 18.9 l 0.067ml X 18.9 l = 1.26 ml per 5 gal batch or pretty darn close to 1 drop
Thats what I got, Its a 15000:1 dilution ratio...(edit) oops I made the same mistake, that if you want a 5gallon starter....Duh. So it about 20µl as mrkristofo said. I have Pipettes here at my work I can use for that volume. but I guess the equivalent would be if you dipped a thin sewing needle in olive oil, about 20µl would stick to it. (edit)

01-31-2008, 11:04 PM   #18
Kaiser

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Who knew that the yeast needs that small amout of unsaturated fatty acids. I wonder what the amount of yeast growth is that they are getting. The paper reports increased esters which are generally the result of impeded yeast growth.

If we add 8-12ppm of O2 to the wort, the yeast in 1 L of wort gets about 8-12 g of O2. If all that O2 is used to make unsaturated fatty acids, it could make much more than a drop og olive oil can provide. Which means that most of the O2 is used for something else and that else is now missing. If it is only the luxury of being able to live aerob for the first few minutes the beer could live with it, but if it's needed for growth there should be an impact on the flavor profile.

I'm not skeptical that this works, I just want to better understand what is actually happening.

Kai

02-01-2008, 03:41 PM   #19
delboy

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Edit just realised Mr Malty uses 10 to the 9 for billions (short scale) and not 10 to the 12 (long scale) as i assumed.
Calcs changed.

http://http://www.mbaa.com/Districts/RockyMtn/news.htm

They suggest that you need 1mg of olive oil per 25 X 10 to the 9 cells (or 2.5 X 10 to the 10).

Mr Malty recommends about 180 billion cells or 1.8 X 10 to the 11 (for 1048 or 12 Plato).

So 1.8 X 10 to the 11 divided by 2.5 X 10 to the 10

= 7.2mg

7.2mg, since the density of olive oil is 0.915 then you would require 7.2/0.915 = 7.9 ul in a 5 gallon batch.

Personally i'd just put a drop in and forget about measuring it, a single drop is not going to affect the head retention a single iota.

02-01-2008, 05:01 PM   #20
Kaiser

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Kaiser If we add 8-12ppm of O2 to the wort, the yeast in 1 L of wort gets about 8-12 g of O2.
I was incorrect here. The yeast gets 8-12 mg O2/l

with the number of 1 mg oil per 25*10^9 cells, that delboy found, a 12*P wort would need about 0.5 mg/l olive oil. Still much less than the O2 that was added.

Kai