Using Olive oil instead of Oxygen - Home Brew Forums
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Using Olive oil instead of Oxygen
Cool Brewing Giveaway - Supporting Membership Drive & Discount

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-12-2007, 09:48 PM   #1
Germey
 
Germey's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Sep 2007
Rancho Bernardo, CA
Posts: 696
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts



I just listened to a BrewCrazy podcast talking about a recent paper published by an employee at New Belgium.
Here's an abstract...

[I]Olive Oil Addition to Yeast as an Alternative to Wort Aeration

To extend the flavor stability of their beers, many breweries are researching ways of reducing oxygen ingress throughout the brewing process. However, the practice of aerating the wort prior to fermentation is almost universal in the brewing industry because oxygen is necessary for yeast health and growth. Recent studies have shown that alternative methods to traditional wort aeration such as aeration of the yeast prior to pitching or the addition of the unsaturated fatty acid linoleic acid can yield fermentation characteristics similar to wort aeration. It has also been shown that using these alternative methods instead of aerating the wort can reduce oxidation potential. This paper reports the findings of a series of full-scale production tests that were conducted in an operating brewery to evaluate the effects of another type of yeast treatment. By mixing olive oil into the yeast, during storage, instead of aerating the wort, fermentations can be achieved with only minor increase in fermentation time. The beers produced from these fermentations were comparable in flavor and foam retention to beers produced by traditional wort aeration. The ester profile of the beers produced using olive oil addition was significantly higher than the controls and the flavor stability of these beers was significantly improved.
Presentation PresentationBibliography:
Grady Hull graduated from Colorado State University in 1994 with a BS in Food Science and Technology. After an intership with Coors Brewing Company he worked as a brewer for CooperSmith's and Fleetside brewpubs. In 1996 he began working at New Belgium Brewing Company where he is currently the Assistant Brewmaster. While working at New Belgium he recieved his MSc in Brewing and Distilling from Heriot-Watt University.
Is presentation an:
OriginalWork
Work done at:
New Belgium Brewing Company


The difficulty is that they only use a very small amount at full production scale. Here is a quote from someone at New Belgium

"The olive oil thing was the result of some research done first at the University of Leuven in Belgium, and then some full scale testing we did here at New Belgium.

"The basic concept is that since yeast uses an oxygen atom to pull a hydrogen away from an 18 carbon chain unsaturated fatty acid to make a monounsaturated fatty acid chain to help it grow, you could simply provide an 18 carbon monounsaturated fatty acid and it would be able to use that. This works well in practice, we made a little over 1 million bottles with beer where the yeast had had olive oil added.

"The main thing to remember is that since you're working on a molecular level, and the olive oil has a high concentration of that molecule, the amount you actually need is pretty small. Additionally, you want to use a very small amount to avoid any detrimental effects that the oil would have on the beer's head retention.

"For the volume of wort we normally ferment, we would pitch about 4500L of yeast, and to that we would add around 300mL of olive oil. To translate that into a 5 gallon size, you would need to measure about 0.0000833mL of olive oil. For any practical purpose, that is much too small an amount to accurately measure out. You could fudge and just add the tiniest imaginable drop to the yeast you have, but you'd be over-dosing the oil by thousands of times the required amount, and run the risk of having zero foam retention. Not a good compromise in my opinion.

"The bigger picture is this: for us, we did this as a way to avoid potential for oxygen free radicals to contribute to staling off flavors, and hopefully could count on getting an extra 2-3 weeks of shelf life time in the finished product."


So a couple of the guys on BrewCrazy tried it on the 5gal scale and had good results by putting one drop in a quart of water, boiling it, then adding between one drop and a teaspoon to the wort.

Anyone else heard more about this? Anyone want to give it a try?




 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 09:49 PM   #2
Soulive
 
Soulive's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Mar 2007
The Middle of NJ
Posts: 4,264
Liked 25 Times on 25 Posts


Heard of it, tried it, not worth it aka don't do it. It might be easier if you were brewing 20+ gallons...


__________________
Cheers!


===================
Green Lane Brewing
===================

Primary = Evan!'s Special Bitter
On Deck = EdWort's Porter / American Amber


EdWort's Haus Pale Ale Count

CanAm Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 09:55 PM   #3
TexLaw
Here's Lookin' Atcha!
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
TexLaw's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Sep 2007
Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,671
Liked 27 Times on 26 Posts


Yep. I heard of it. I have to say it's an interesting topic. McKissack was all excited about it and was going to brew that experimental batch. I haven't listened to the podcast, though, or talked to him about the results. How did fermentation and head retention compare to a control? (Did the have a control?)

I also couldn't see how it would be worth it on a homebrewing scale, but I'm still interested in it just from an academic point of view.


TL
__________________
Beer is good for anything from hot dogs to heartache.

Drinking Frog Brewery, est. 1993

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 10:11 PM   #4
Germey
 
Germey's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Sep 2007
Rancho Bernardo, CA
Posts: 696
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by TexLaw

I also couldn't see how it would be worth it on a homebrewing scale, but I'm still interested in it just from an academic point of view.


TL
Me too, although I may well try it. The pod cast is a good listen as they get into a lot of the biology of yeast reproduction and the chemistry behind this experiment. There is a potential application here for brewing very big beers without a huge starter. It would allow the yeast to keep reproducing after the initial O2 is gone from the wort. There is also the fact that New Belgium specifically wanted to keep O2 out of the wort for quality reasons. I read another quote somewhere (on probrewer I think) that said one should only oxygenate the starter and not the wort.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 10:12 PM   #5
Catfish
Art by David Shrigley
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Catfish's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jul 2005
Nishinomiya, Japan
Posts: 840
Liked 15 Times on 3 Posts


Olive oil also contains stuff you don't want in your beer. There was a long discussion about it in the HBD. It sounds nice, but I'm sticking with O2.
__________________
鯰 a.k.a. なまず a.k.a. Catfish

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2007, 10:22 PM   #6
SenorWanderer
Beer Maniac
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
SenorWanderer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2007
Denver
Posts: 592
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts


I have SO MANY other issues in my brewing process to worry about before i start thinking about adding olive oil to my yeast. pretty cool article.

homebrewbeliever Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2007, 02:50 PM   #7
david_42
 
david_42's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2005
Willamina & Oak Grove, Oregon, USA
Posts: 25,576
Liked 148 Times on 139 Posts


Quote:
The ester profile of the beers produced using olive oil addition was significantly higher than the controls
Not in my beer.
__________________
Remember one unassailable statistic, as explained by the late, great George Carlin: "Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!"

"I would like to die on Mars, just not on impact." Elon Musk

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 04:30 PM   #8
delboy
 
delboy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jan 2007
Belfast N.Ireland
Posts: 320
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


I've came across this before, the guys math is out by a thousand fold (he's got confused between litres and ml), it should be 0.083ml, just in case anybody wanted to try this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Germey
I just listened to a BrewCrazy podcast talking about a recent paper published by an employee at New Belgium.
Here's an abstract...

[I]Olive Oil Addition to Yeast as an Alternative to Wort Aeration

To extend the flavor stability of their beers, many breweries are researching ways of reducing oxygen ingress throughout the brewing process. However, the practice of aerating the wort prior to fermentation is almost universal in the brewing industry because oxygen is necessary for yeast health and growth. Recent studies have shown that alternative methods to traditional wort aeration such as aeration of the yeast prior to pitching or the addition of the unsaturated fatty acid linoleic acid can yield fermentation characteristics similar to wort aeration. It has also been shown that using these alternative methods instead of aerating the wort can reduce oxidation potential. This paper reports the findings of a series of full-scale production tests that were conducted in an operating brewery to evaluate the effects of another type of yeast treatment. By mixing olive oil into the yeast, during storage, instead of aerating the wort, fermentations can be achieved with only minor increase in fermentation time. The beers produced from these fermentations were comparable in flavor and foam retention to beers produced by traditional wort aeration. The ester profile of the beers produced using olive oil addition was significantly higher than the controls and the flavor stability of these beers was significantly improved.
Presentation PresentationBibliography:
Grady Hull graduated from Colorado State University in 1994 with a BS in Food Science and Technology. After an intership with Coors Brewing Company he worked as a brewer for CooperSmith's and Fleetside brewpubs. In 1996 he began working at New Belgium Brewing Company where he is currently the Assistant Brewmaster. While working at New Belgium he recieved his MSc in Brewing and Distilling from Heriot-Watt University.
Is presentation an:
OriginalWork
Work done at:
New Belgium Brewing Company


The difficulty is that they only use a very small amount at full production scale. Here is a quote from someone at New Belgium

"The olive oil thing was the result of some research done first at the University of Leuven in Belgium, and then some full scale testing we did here at New Belgium.

"The basic concept is that since yeast uses an oxygen atom to pull a hydrogen away from an 18 carbon chain unsaturated fatty acid to make a monounsaturated fatty acid chain to help it grow, you could simply provide an 18 carbon monounsaturated fatty acid and it would be able to use that. This works well in practice, we made a little over 1 million bottles with beer where the yeast had had olive oil added.

"The main thing to remember is that since you're working on a molecular level, and the olive oil has a high concentration of that molecule, the amount you actually need is pretty small. Additionally, you want to use a very small amount to avoid any detrimental effects that the oil would have on the beer's head retention.

"For the volume of wort we normally ferment, we would pitch about 4500L of yeast, and to that we would add around 300mL of olive oil. To translate that into a 5 gallon size, you would need to measure about 0.0000833mL of olive oil. For any practical purpose, that is much too small an amount to accurately measure out. You could fudge and just add the tiniest imaginable drop to the yeast you have, but you'd be over-dosing the oil by thousands of times the required amount, and run the risk of having zero foam retention. Not a good compromise in my opinion.

"The bigger picture is this: for us, we did this as a way to avoid potential for oxygen free radicals to contribute to staling off flavors, and hopefully could count on getting an extra 2-3 weeks of shelf life time in the finished product."


So a couple of the guys on BrewCrazy tried it on the 5gal scale and had good results by putting one drop in a quart of water, boiling it, then adding between one drop and a teaspoon to the wort.

Anyone else heard more about this? Anyone want to give it a try?

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 04:47 PM   #9
conpewter
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
conpewter's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Nov 2007
East Dundee, Illinois
Posts: 5,085
Liked 52 Times on 47 Posts


I may try this sometime if I go to 10 gallon batches. I'd probably still aerate my starter but then use this on one carboy and usual methods on the other, I don't think 10 gallon batches are too soon in my future though. Very interesting idea though, I like the idea of diluting the olive oil somehow to get a smaller amount, does boiling the water somehow make the oil mix in?

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 04:51 PM   #10
sirsloop
Recipes 
 
Jun 2006
South River, NJ
Posts: 2,587
Liked 20 Times on 17 Posts


I think when you are talking about aerating 5-10 gallons of beer, the cost is low. If you have considerable oxygen expenses from millions of bottles, then yeah maybe its worth looking into.


__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~___//_ ____________________________~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~_/ [][]| | /```\/```\/```\/```\/```\ |~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~_/_______| |____NOW TRIPLE HOPPED______|~~~~~~~~~~
~~~___/[_]| 00 /| | \,,,/\,,,/\,,,/\,,,/\,,,/ |~~~~~~~~~~
~~|___|___|___/_| |___________________________|~~~~~~~~~~
~~|=(*)[________]==(*)(*)=| \________/=(*)(*)=|~~~~~~~~~~

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Olive Oil Aeration? RedOctober Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 15 04-13-2013 11:49 PM
Oxygen for airation/can I use industrial oxygen? Mainebrew Equipment/Sanitation 20 10-19-2012 07:45 PM
olive oil? stevenryals Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 15 02-15-2011 07:36 PM
High gravity, oxygen, and olive oil FlyGuy General Techniques 26 01-25-2011 02:44 PM
Olive Oil? RonRock Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 10 09-29-2008 01:21 AM


Forum Jump