When is (your) Ferment "Done?"

I'm novice. Been brewing a few months. I often secondary just because I like dry hopping and attempting more clarity that way. Whether that works (clarity) or not is up for debate, but I think it does.

Anyhow, when do you consider your ferment complete? I've heard "when your airlock slows" etc., but it's often hard to tell. Sometimes there is still a lot of activity in the carboy (swirling), but my airlock is slowing.

At what point can I feel is a good time to rack to my secondary?

Also, how many of you double-pitch if it's a beer over 1.060? I've been reading a lot about that (double pitching) lately.

Thanks,
Brad


Will always still be figuring it out.

I usually give it a solid month in the primary unless it's something with a low OG that ferments out quickly. Then I do the standard verification of finding two consistent gravity readings 3 days apart.

Don't let airlock activity be your only gauge of complete fermentation because like you said, it can be hard to tell. The airlock might not be doing anything visually, but the yeast could still be ticking off those last few points of SG.

My ferment is done once the yeast have consumed all fermentable sugars, and floc out. This typically means there is zero airlock activity, there is a solid yeast cake at the bottom of the fermenter, and your specific gravity is stable and within the range you expect. I generally don't do secondaries. Most beers are done fermenting in 5-10 days, but I generally wait two weeks. Double pitching is an odd term. I generally try to pitch 0.75 million cells per ml per degree plato wort. There are calculators that help you get near this target based on your wort gravity, yeast production date (viability), and starter size / methodology.

http://www.mymalty.com

i do 3 weeks primary, no secondary. Unless it's a really big beer (1.09 or higher) then it gets 4 weeks.

wonderbread23 said:

My ferment is done once the yeast have consumed all fermentable sugars, and floc out. This typically means there is zero airlock activity, there is a solid yeast cake at the bottom of the fermenter, and your specific gravity is stable and within the range you expect. I generally don't do secondaries. Most beers are done fermenting in 5-10 days, but I generally wait two weeks. Double pitching is an odd term. I generally try to pitch 0.75 million cells per ml per degree plato wort. There are calculators that help you get near this target based on your wort gravity, yeast production date (viability), and starter size / methodology.

http://www.mymalty.com

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Double-pitching is a weird term while "per degree plato wort" is everyday chatter. (hehe) What I meant was two packets of yeast (say if it's a dry yeast pitch) for any beer over 1.060. If you're doing a true starter I'm not sure that's so necessary, but I could be wrong. The one starter I did took off like a rocket. I guess that doesn't necessarily mean it did a "good" job, it just did a quick job.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

I'm baffled by the lack of secondary users here. True, it saves a little labor, but does a secondary not provide more clarity? I've seen it with my own eyes as a buddy and I brewed the same kit. He didn't secondary, while I did. I guess I'm still too new to this. I like a pretty beer. I'm sure that will change the more secondaries I find myself racking.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

Primary should be done in 3-4 days. Secondary is done essentially whenever you want it to be, but usually when the beer clears. "Fermentation" is done when the gravity stabilizes. When using a secondary, I like to wait 10 days before racking and then bottle once the beer has cleared.

typebrad said:

does a secondary not provide more clarity?

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No more so than a long primary and a reasonable amount of care during the racking process.

Cold crashing can accomplish the same objective in less time as well.

Secondary does not really provide more clarity. What is actually occurring is you are giving the yeast more time to flocculate out. If you leave the beer in the primary for the same amount of time you get the same results. The yeast will drop to the bottom and the beer will be clear.

Honestly if clarity is the issue you are having you are missing the easiest method. Al you need to do is cold crash your beer. Put the fermenter into the fridge. LEt it stay there for 12- 24 hours and the yeast will reliably drop to the bottom as they don't like the cold temps. This leaves you with the clarity you are looking for. This also keeps you from having to rack to another vessel, risk oxidation etc... That is why you don't see people doing secondary. It is just not necessary in most instances.

The only time you might need to secondary would be when you plan on long -term bulk aging. That is needed for only a few types of beer though.

It seems that a lot of people (myself included) find that leaving the beer in primary until it has cleared and is done fermenting not only does no noticeable harm but also reduces potential sanitation problems that could occur with the extra racking needed for secondary fermentation. I started out doing secondary fermentation and did so the first few years I brewed. I found that I often rushed the beer into secondary. Having relaxed a lot over the last few years I find that between my gravity readings, my sense of the yeast strains I generally use, and the clarity of the beer in my carboy I can tell when it's ready. That being said I usually rack the beer into the keg after 2-4 weeks. I carefully rack off just the clear beer and pick up almost no sediment as the yeast cake is usually better solidified at this point. My beers are very clear and I often get comments on just how clear it is. To each his/her own but this is what works for me.

BBL_Brewer said:

Primary should be done in 3-4 days. Secondary is done essentially whenever you want it to be, but usually when the beer clears. "Fermentation" is done when the gravity stabilizes. When using a secondary, I like to wait 10 days before racking and then bottle once the beer has cleared.

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This has generally been my practice , but I haven't hit the G's I've expected every time, hence my 'pitch more yeast' comment.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

Tropidolaemus said:

It seems that a lot of people (myself included) find that leaving the beer in primary until it has cleared and is done fermenting not only does no noticeable harm but also reduces potential sanitation problems that could occur with the extra racking needed for secondary fermentation. I started out doing secondary fermentation and did so the first few years I brewed. I found that I often rushed the beer into secondary. Having relaxed a lot over the last few years I find that between my gravity readings, my sense of the yeast strains I generally use, and the clarity of the beer in my carboy I can tell when it's ready. That being said I usually rack the beer into the keg after 2-4 weeks. I carefully rack off just the clear beer and pick up almost no sediment as the yeast cake is usually better solidified at this point. My beers are very clear and I often get comments on just how clear it is. To each his/her own but this is what works for me.

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Music to my ears. I'm following your instruction with my next brew. Racking a secondary DOES suck in truth.




/Will always still be figuring it out/

typebrad said:

I'm baffled by the lack of secondary users here. True, it saves a little labor, but does a secondary not provide more clarity? I've seen it with my own eyes as a buddy and I brewed the same kit. He didn't secondary, while I did. I guess I'm still too new to this. I like a pretty beer. I'm sure that will change the more secondaries I find myself racking.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

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I think it's a matter of preference. I almost never use a secondary, but I make relatively quick beers, APAs and IPAs mostly with a few others mixed in. For some beers, like lagers or a kolsch, I will use a secondary and colder temperatures at that time.

The beer is generally noted to be confirmed as done when the SG hasn't changed over at least three days. That could be on day 5 or day 10- once it's done, it's not going to get "doner". It will clear a bit after that, but fermentation is over.

My preference is to dryhop or package when the beer is done for at least three days and is clear.

Here is one of my "no secondary" hoppy beers, at about three weeks old:


It's clear enough for me.

Foosier said:

Secondary does not really provide more clarity. What is actually occurring is you are giving the yeast more time to flocculate out. If you leave the beer in the primary for the same amount of time you get the same results. The yeast will drop to the bottom and the beer will be clear.



Honestly if clarity is the issue you are having you are missing the easiest method. Al you need to do is cold crash your beer. Put the fermenter into the fridge. LEt it stay there for 12- 24 hours and the yeast will reliably drop to the bottom as they don't like the cold temps. This leaves you with the clarity you are looking for. This also keeps you from having to rack to another vessel, risk oxidation etc... That is why you don't see people doing secondary. It is just not necessary in most instances.



The only time you might need to secondary would be when you plan on long -term bulk aging. That is needed for only a few types of beer though.

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At what temp does one typically cold crash? I only have one chest freezer, so, in theory, if I only have one beer in there, I can just set the Johnson Control to a much cooler temp.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

My pale ale is done in 10 days. But that is because I know exactly what it will do from brewing it over and over on the same system. I don't secondary but do keg which can have similar results. Other beers I rely on readings to know how they are performing.

Yooper said:

I think it's a matter of preference. I almost never use a secondary, but I make relatively quick beers, APAs and IPAs mostly with a few others mixed in. For some beers, like lagers or a kolsch, I will use a secondary and colder temperatures at that time.

The beer is generally noted to be confirmed as done when the SG hasn't changed over at least three days. That could be on day 5 or day 10- once it's done, it's not going to get "doner". It will clear a bit after that, but fermentation is over.

My preference is to dryhop or package when the beer is done for at least three days and is clear.

Here is one of my "no secondary" hoppy beers, at about three weeks old:
View attachment 199947

It's clear enough for me.

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If we're talking fishing AND beer, I'm in.



/Will always still be figuring it out/

Cold crash as close to freezing as possible.

typebrad said:

I'm baffled by the lack of secondary users here. True, it saves a little labor, but does a secondary not provide more clarity? I've seen it with my own eyes as a buddy and I brewed the same kit. He didn't secondary, while I did. I guess I'm still too new to this. I like a pretty beer. I'm sure that will change the more secondaries I find myself racking.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

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The beer will clear regardless of whether you rack it to a secondary. I will agree that using a secondary will clear the beer faster, but it's not going to result in better clarity than leaving it in primary. Some folks like to use primary only and cold crash before bottling. For those of us who keg, clarity is almost irrelevant. While the beer is carbonating, it's also cold conditioning. Once the beer is ready to drink, it's crystal clear. Home brewing is all about finding a method that works for you. For many of us, racking to secondary is just a waste of time/labor and another opportunity for oxidation.

I have always found that racking into secondary allows the yeast to flocculate more quickly. And as a pro brewer told me, it is always a good thing to get the beer off of dead yeast. This is especially important when brewing high gravity beers!!!!! Brewer Neill Acer was picking yeast autolysis in the Avery big beers in a tasting we did, criticizing them for allowing the beer to sit in the primary on dead yeast too long. Big beers will have more dead yeast and better chance of this happening, even in slight quantities. Yeast autolysis may not happen to the extent of destroying a beer, but the trained palate can pick out a slight flavor where a brewer sees nothing. So the question is asked: Do you want to just make beer? Or make GREAT beer?

Fermenting in glass allows the brewer to look for activity, as in swirling yeast. And then see when yeast has fallen out of suspension. Sometimes the airlock is bubbling extremely slowly, but the yeast can be seen to be slightly active.

Clear beer is more of a result of the brewing process (quickly chilling wort, long boils both contribute to clarity). The yeast floculation has nothing to do with clear beer, rather it has to do with sediment in the bottle or keg.

typebrad said:

I'm novice. Been brewing a few months. I often secondary just because I like dry hopping and attempting more clarity that way. Whether that works (clarity) or not is up for debate, but I think it does.

Anyhow, when do you consider your ferment complete? I've heard "when your airlock slows" etc., but it's often hard to tell. Sometimes there is still a lot of activity in the carboy (swirling), but my airlock is slowing.

Click to expand...

Every yeast strain will be a little different, and it can take time to recognize then it is "done" for each strain. Airlock activity is a poor sign, in my opinion, especially if you ferment in a vessel that doesn't have a tight seal. I visually observe (which is why I prefer glass) and when it appears to have stopped, I take gravity readings. 2 or 3, a few days apart, same gravity=fermentation done. However, if the gravity isn't where it's supposed to be, I may need to get fermentation unstuck. If the beer doesn't have the taste I expect, it may need more time (even if all the sugars are consumed) for the yeast to uptake some of the fermentation byproducts that might contribute to off flavors. So, long answer short - it's done when I have a stable gravity and I like how it tastes.

At what point can I feel is a good time to rack to my secondary?

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When fermentation is done AND there is a need. I rack to a second fermentor when I plan to lager for a month or two, or when I plan to repitch my yeast and am dry hopping. Otherwise, I let it finish up in the primary fermentor, even for cold conditioning.

Also, how many of you double-pitch if it's a beer over 1.060? I've been reading a lot about that (double pitching) lately.

Click to expand...

I don't "double pitch" per se, but I do pitch an amount as determined by a pitch rate calculator. I prefer using the former "yeastcalc.com" which, when I last checked, was still MIA. Fortunately I have it saved, so I use it locally on my machine. I use a stir plate and flasks to grow up my starters to the size I need.

typebrad said:

I'm baffled by the lack of secondary users here. True, it saves a little labor, but does a secondary not provide more clarity? I've seen it with my own eyes as a buddy and I brewed the same kit. He didn't secondary, while I did. I guess I'm still too new to this. I like a pretty beer. I'm sure that will change the more secondaries I find myself racking.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

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I've used a secondary a few times and my beer had no issues. I have also noticed that the difference in clarity is minimal from my experience. I don't use a secondary much in the last year for a couple of reasons, 1) it is more laborious and B) it's another opportunity for contamination of the beer.

I've not had either problem crop up whether I use a secondary or not. This is probably due to my sanitization procedure which I have dialed in over the years I've brewed. Whatever works for you is good so keep it up. There is more than one way to brew a beer...


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I have been brewing 2+ years, and no longer use a secondary as a habit. I run my wort through a strainer from the BK to the fermenter, and that removes a huge amount of trub. I always use Irish Moss @15 minutes and cool the wort as much as possible before racking to my fermenter. At that point, there is little left to cold crash out.

typebrad said:

I'm baffled by the lack of secondary users here. True, it saves a little labor, but does a secondary not provide more clarity? I've seen it with my own eyes as a buddy and I brewed the same kit. He didn't secondary, while I did. I guess I'm still too new to this. I like a pretty beer. I'm sure that will change the more secondaries I find myself racking.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

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i keg which is part of why i don't secondary. I absolutely hated giving friends/family "the speech" on how to pour a homebrew. My beers are beautiful - don't even use whirfloc anymore.

I don't secondary, unless that's a really good reason to for that specific recipe. When things are done depends on the recipe. My best bitter is ready to go in the cask in 4-5 days, a saison with 3724 might take 6 weeks at 90F to stop slowly dropping in gravity.

i secondary because i need to stall for time while i drink and clear out some bottles

I consider fermentation done when I get stable final gravity readings over a 24 hour period and it's within the expected range. I then cold crash at 32-34F for 2 days, add gelatin and let it sit 2 more days. All this in the primary fermenter, which happens to be my boil/brew kettle. Then I bottle it and let it carbonate and condition in the bottle. I typically go from boil to bottle in 12-14 days. That's what works for me.


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julioardz said:

I consider fermentation done when I get stable final gravity readings over a 24 hour period and it's within the expected range. I then cold crash at 32-34F for 2 days, add gelatin and let it sit 2 more days. All this in the primary fermenter, which happens to be my boil/brew kettle. Then I bottle it and let it carbonate and condition in the bottle. I typically go from boil to bottle in 12-14 days. That's what works for me.


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Please explain the gelatin part. I have not used it. Don't know what it does, when to use it, amount? Liquid? during crash? Any specific details and explanation why you use it would be cool.

Thanks



/Will always still be figuring it out/

Gelatin is a fining agent. It helps clear your beer quickly when done properly. Here's a good write up on using gelatin.

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06/how-to-clear-your-beer-with-gelatin.html


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julioardz said:

Gelatin is a fining agent. It helps clear your beer quickly when done properly. Here's a good write up on using gelatin.

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06/how-to-clear-your-beer-with-gelatin.html


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That is a great tutorial on the use of gelatin for clearing your beer! Extremely clear, concise and understandable...

Alas, I can't cool my primary to those levels (yet!) so I probably can't use that method. Also I don't keg, only bottle.


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catdaddy66 said:

That is a great tutorial on the use of gelatin for clearing your beer! Extremely clear, concise and understandable...

Alas, I can't cool my primary to those levels (yet!) so I probably can't use that method. Also I don't keg, only bottle.

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Years ago, before I started cold conditioning all my beers, I used gelatin without chilling the beer first. It works fine - in fact, the observable action of the gelatin is even more pronounced, because there is so much more yeast present, a visible line appears as the yeast drops.

Chilling for a few days can form chill haze in the beer (coagulated proteins, if present) and even though I've heard people say gelatin isn't meant to clear chill haze, gelatin, combined with the yeast dropping, seems to clear the chill haze as well.

You guys have inspired me. I bottle and am capable of cold crashing. I may look into this gelatin thing, too. I have two beers in primaries right now and not having to move them to another carboy and still get clear, pretty beers would just rule.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

julioardz said:

Gelatin is a fining agent. It helps clear your beer quickly when done properly. Here's a good write up on using gelatin.

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06/how-to-clear-your-beer-with-gelatin.html


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Click to expand...

Can anyone tell if he's saying keep at cold-crash temps after adding gelatin, or just go back to your fermentation temp? I'm unclear on what temp range I'm supposed to be in once gelatin is added.

Thanks


/Will always still be figuring it out/

I cold crash for 48 hours at 32-34F, add gelatin, and hold at 32-34F for another 48 hours. Then I transfer the beer to the bottling bucket cold, add the priming sugar solution, and bottle away. I let the bottled beer come up to room temperature and it's usually ready in 2-3 weeks. I have significantly cut down on the conditioning time since I started cold crashing and using gelatin. Most batches are ready to drink and taste great in 25-30 days, when using gelatin and of course good brewing techniques, like proper pitch rate, temperature control, and whatever special attention the individual batches need. For me, batches with a complex malt profile take a longer time for the flavors to meld. I follow the same technique and let it condition in the bottle a little longer before I start drinking it.

Good luck. Here's a lawnmower beer I brewed 4/6/2014. I've been drinking this for a couple weeks now. It's ice cold. I wiped the glass right before taking the picture. (just saying so you don't think it's a warm beer made to look clear)

One more thing... I often dry hop with loose pellets (as opposed to using a hop sack) in the primary fermenter. Then I follow the same technique as above of cold crashing, adding gelatin, holding at 32-34F for 2 days, and bottle. The cold and gelatin drop the hop matter together with the yeast and all other haze causing particles. Some say gelatin strips a bit of the dry hop aroma, but it's not enough for me to notice or really care. If that was a concern, I would just add more dry hops.

Ok, I'm sure there are many other nuances with cold crashing, just like everything else in brewing. Beer volume decreases as it cools. This lowers the air pressure in the headspace of the fermenter, so the airlock will try to suck in air. A three piece airlock may jam and suck water/sanitizer into the fermenter. An s-shaped airlock works more smoothly for cold crashing, or you can just relieve the difference in air pressure by popping the lid or stopper. I ferment in my brew kettle. The lid is secure enough to keep bugs out, but not airtight. I haven't had problems with oxidation because of cold crashing.