Tribute Tribute (St. Austell)

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

PeteNMA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
844
Reaction score
133
Location
Cary
Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
M79
Yeast Starter
No
Batch Size (Gallons)
6
Original Gravity
1.052
Final Gravity
1.010
Boiling Time (Minutes)
90
IBU
40
Color
7.8SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
4 days @ 68F
Tasting Notes
Slightly hoppy pale ale, a nice blend of UK and US influence
Thought I'd throw this one out here having had some success. This is a recipe from St Austell brewery in Cornwall, England from the head of the head brewer Roger Ryman who knows a thing or two about good beer. A nice pale ale, decent mouthfeel with just the right amount of head and judicious use of non-typical hops, this is a great summer beer.

Recipe:
Batch size: 6 gallons (5.25 finished beer)
7lbs Maris Otter
2lbs Dark Munich (20L)

Mash in with 3 gallons, 152F rest for 1 hour.
First wort hop with 1 oz UK Fuggles
Sparge with 5 gallons, should collect about 7 gallons in kettle.

Boil for 90 minutes.
Whirlfloc @ 15 mins
1oz ea Willamette and Styrian Goldings @ 10 minutes
1oz ea Willamette and Styrian Goldings @ flameout
Whirlpool for 20 minutes then chill.

Target OG from the real brew is 1.042, my last batch came out at 1.052.

I've had great success using Mangrove Jack dry yeast with this, either the M07 English Ale or M79 Burton Union give great results. The M07 is a bit crisper, the M79 left a little more residual sweetness. It works fine with US-05 too.

FG should come to about 1.010.

A week in the kegs and this is already shaping up very nicely. Best drunk fresh and goes from grain to glass very quickly if you want it to.
 
Have you had the real thing? If so, I'd be interested in how they compare. Also, if you'd do anything different in a re-brew.
 
I have had an awful lot of the real thing! Sadly living on the US side of the pond now it's beyond my ken to get my hands on it, but I did make sure to refresh my memory on a recent trip back.

This brew comes out very close to the real thing from a cask treated properly by a good cellarman. The bottled stuff is a little different, with a sharper edge and maybe a little less maltiness. The cask stuff is smooth, a great combination of malty goodness with gentle hoppiness on top.

Next time I brew this I'm skipping the M07 yeast, this is definitely best with the M79. I'll probably sparge with another gallon or maybe knock the grain down a little to get the gravity closer to the low to mid 1.040 range. And I have a pump now so I'll whirlpool with that rather than a big spoon. Otherwise I couldn't be happier with how this turned out.
 
As an Englishman living in the US I hope this gets near the real thing as I have enjoyed many a wobble home after 1 too may tributes.

I'll be adding this to the to do list.

I think we need a general English beer recipe section of this forum, I'm not a big fan of a lot of American beers, too many are too hoppy for my taste!
 
I'm fairly confident that it's at least a reasonable approximation to the real stuff. I think a lot depends on how well you can hot whirlpool the flameout addition, if you only so it half heartedly you'll miss some of that floral aroma and it tends to come out a bit too lemony. Either stir well for the fifteen minutes or use a pump if you have that luxury.

WRT temp and carb, I keep it at 40F on 12psi of gas. It's a nice middle ground I find with the other stuff I keep on tap, as I tend to have an English bitter, American pale ale, some variety of lager and a stout at any one time.

Ideally you'd serve at about 50-55f under about the same pressure. It's certainly a lot more delicious if you pour a pint and let it warm up a little before drinking.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Thanks, I'll be sure to give it a try, I'll be using a big spoon for the whirlpool as I'm only just getting going with the brewing.

Got a couple of 2.5 gallon polypin(ish), I might use one and bottle the rest, when I free up a fermenter.
 
In the recipe, you say you use dry yeast M79 and do not use a yeast starter. Can I read into this that you simply put the dry yeast in the wort when it reaches the correct temperature after cooling or do you still pitch the yeast? The yeast pitching process is not something I've ever done with any great success and I think that is why a lot of my beers are not as good as they should be.
 
Lewis, when you put the yeast into the wort, you are "pitching". Maybe you are referring to rehydration? Have you tried Wyeast liquid yeast? Usually is bubbling away within 6 hours, in my experience.
 
With dry yeast I just sprinkle it onto the cooled wort. No need to make starters, and I only bother rehydrating if I feel bored while I'm boiling. I've never been able to pick out a difference in the beer and it means fewer things to sanitise and less cleaning up to biit


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Thanks rmyurick, I meant making a yeast starter but upon reading up it seems that you should make a starter with liquid yeast, but with dried you either sprinkle on top or rehydrate but as Pete says, this involves more prep and dried yeast has significantly more cells in it than a liquid yeast.
 
Hi, Pete -
I will be brewing this today as a test batch for what will be re-brewed for a Cornish friend's 50th birthday party come July.

I doubled the recipe since I do 10-gallon batches. Could not find dark munich anywhere so I subbed 3 lbs of munich and 1/2 lb of Caramunich to add back some caramel and sweetness notes (this is after tweaking based on my efficiency in beersmith). I was able to find the exact hops though.

Normally when I cut the flame, I whirlpool and chill at the same time (I have one of those coil chillers with an additional arm on it to pump the wort back over the coils - this greatly accelerates the chilling and also helps clarify with the whirlpooling motion.

Was wondering your thoughts on if this should do the trick for preserving the aromas from the flameout addition. My understanding is quicker chilling should help reduce volatility of the aromas.

Thoughts?


Thank you
 
I actually made 10 gallons myself and just cut the recipe in half to post it.

Let us know how it goes with the Caramunich. I've toyed with adding a little in the past but never tried it. I doubt that the dark Munich malt makes a significant contribution over regular Munich so I'd just sub out directly to keep it simple but that's strictly a guess. I think that the real stuff veers more towards malty than sweet, the dark Munich seems to be as close to St A's Cornish Gold malt as can be bought though.

WRT flameout/chill, you need to hot steep the last addition for the flavor to be right. Put your chiller/whirlpool contraption in and start recirculating, then once the time is up turn on the chilling water. I've tried it both ways and the hot whirlpool is key.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Great, thanks for the additional info.
You said you got the recipe directly from Roger, so who am I to question? :)

I think for the re-brew I might buy the dark munich from one of the few websites where I did see it. My LHBS didn't have it and neither did my RHBS (regional homebrew store, lol - Keystone Homebrew which is a pretty big operation.) Part of the rationale for that little taste of caramunich was for color as well. I don't expect 1/2 lb in 10 gallons will make a huge impact.

Going to call mine 'Truro Tribute' - because it's close to St. Austell... but it's not St. Austell.

Cheers
 
Nope, the recipe comes from a lot of interpolation of minor details gleaned from hints here and there and is also heavily informed by the thread over on jimsbeerkit.

St A list the ingredients as I have them with the exception of the Cornish gold malt which is made exclusively for them by Simpsons. Various folk have been able to tease information out of the brewers via email or on the tour such as the 20:80 Cornish gold:Maris otter ratio and the approximate 25IBUs. There are also several published interviews around where roger talks broadly about the recipe. FG is measured and from there OG is calculated given the ABV.

From eyeballing the Cornish gold at the brewery it does look a touch darker than the straight 10L Munich which is why I prefer the dark 20L stuff. The final color looks dead on to me.

Keep us posted how yours goes. I expect that the Caramunich will put you in the right ballpark, after all as you say it's only a small addition.
.



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Ok, I guess I misunderstood your comment in the original post.
Brew going well other than I way overshot my preboil gravity, so already added some water and will just have to deal with more beer :)
I'm an idiot - I have been hitting 82-83% efficiency the last 5 brews or so and I hadn't updated my equipment profile in beersmith, -so recipe was formulated with 75% eff. Facepalm.
 
More beer? What a shame, you'll have to send it to me for safekeeping
 
I brewed up another 10 gallons of this to split with a buddy last Sunday. Used a bit more sparge water and ran out of propane during the boil, so ended up with 12.5 gallons into the fermenters but hit a much better 1.044 OG

Also used Willamette as the bittering addition instead of Fuggles, hopefully this will be just fine as it means I need to keep fewer varieties on hand.

5 gallons went into the keg yesterday, currently sitting at 30psi as I don't want to shake it this time. I'll knock it down to 12psi tomorrow and let it sit for another week then pass judgement. So far so delicious though




Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Hey - I thought I'd report back on my brew day (although the beer is cold crashing as I type this).

Not sure why but I had crazy high efficiency (~90%) when normally I'm at about 83-85%, and it didn't help that my equipment profile in Beersmith somehow was left at 75% efficiency for formulating recipes. So, yeah, I had a lot of sugar, something like 1.057 post boil. I calculated out a volume of distilled water to take it down to 1.047 in each of two buckets which gave a total volume into fermenters of 12 gallons.

The other screw-up was I had a loose fitting on my hoses, so the pump was cavitating and I couldn't get much of a whirlpool going post flameout. There was a good 20-minute steep however while I troubleshot and intermittent movement of the wort.

I had read a lot of negative things about the M79 yeast - people talking about poor attentuation, tons of esters (particularly banana), very poor flocculation. While my attenuation was on the low side (66%) of the range listed in Beersmith (66-70%), mine flocced out super clean quite quickly and there are just an appropriate amount of fruity esters.

I gave each bucket a full minute of pure O2 through my 0.5 micron stone. Yeast was pitched at 66F. Fermenter kept at 66 for a day to help the yeast get going, then turned it down to 63. Held there for 4 days (was around 1.018 and already looking clear) then ramped 2F per day, to try to get it to dry out. It finished at 1.015 which is a little high but so was the OG. (I sanitized a 24" stainless whisk and roused the yeast to help it.) 3 more days and SG was steady, so I called it done. This comes out to 4.2% ABV like the commercial product and I don't know how noticeable 3 points will be when it is carbed. It tastes quite nice, and I can't wait to get it carbed up.
 
I've only ever let that yeast rock along at about 70F, I don't detect any objectionable off flavors and it ferments fast, dries out nicely then flocs out like peanut butter


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Pete, any idea what that would correspond to in a liquid yeast? White Labs has a WLP007 (Dry English Ale), which corresponds to Wyeast 1098. It has been called "Whitbread" in the past, but Wyeast now has a 1099 whitbread, which is less dry.

I was thinking I might give it a try with the Wyeast 1469, W. Yorkshire. (allegedly similar to Taylor)
 
I've used the 1469 and also WLP007. The 1469 is definitely not right, it finishes very dry IME. 007 would probably be fine , especially if you fermented it a touch warm. You might also try WLP005 or 002, or Wyeast 1945 NeoBritannia from Northern brewer would be an excellent choice too


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Hey Pete - another question for you..
Where are you finding 20L dark munich? I can only find the Schill (22 EBC translates to about 8-9L - I know the convertors online are not perfect bu that's a big difference. The Weyermann is listed as about the same small increase in L from light to dark versions of their Munich. Last attempt at this I compensated for color by using light Munich and a little Caramunich, but I'm trying to avoid that residual sweetness in this, the showtime beer.
What do you suggest, Trying to hit that 7.8 SRM or just using what the "dark munich" from the few available sources comes out as, which in my Beersmith calcs is about 5.5 SRM.

Thanks for any guidance,
Todd
 
Here's the color of my first batch (with the caramunich for color) which calculated to 6.3 SRM. Does it look anything like the real thing? ImageUploadedByHome Brew1402592553.386436.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
It looks a touch dark to me, the real deal is straw with a hint of orange rather than orange orange.

My LHBS says that the dark munich is from BestMalz. Bear in mind that I could also be crossing over my L's with my EBCs as could whoever printed the labels at the store! BestMalz seem to confirm this, here is their link: http://www.bestmalz.com/en/malt/BEST_Munich_Malt_dark.htm

As far as the sweetness, try fermenting warmer. Pitch at 64-68F, let it rise to 68-70F over the first 48 hours and hold it there until it hits FG. You should be hitting an FG of 1.010 which leaves a malty body but not too sweet.
 
Thanks much, Pete. I am definitely not going to do anything to darken the next batch. I'm now guessing your 7.8 SRM in the original post was calculated out by beersmith or something similar? I am going to go back and re-verify all the Lovibond numbers of the grains I used and recalculate. Beersmith doesn't use a Lovibond rating for grains, they're listed with an SRM. I think this is technically wrong but whatever... I don't know if I mentioned this before but Brewtoad.com has a color unit convertor from SRM to EBC to Lovibond and back.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
Weird, I cannot find anything about the SRM in the original post now. I could swear it was listed as 7.8 or 7.3


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
Ok, maybe I got 7.8 from punching in your grain bill percentages to beersmith with 20L dark Munich entered... Sorry for the confusion!


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
No worries! Input is most definitely appreciated, especially catching my trivial errors!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Here's batch 2. I don't have them both on tap for a side-by-side but this does look lighter to me, compared to how I recall the first attempt. I went from 1.047 to 1.013, much better. - 4.5% ABV.

photo (3).jpg
 
This is a great beer. I've not tried to brew it, but when you get it in good nick it's very floral. The bottled version is a bit sharper and more boring. The colour of those last two pictures looks maybe a smidgen darker, but possibly due to the artificial lights. It's darker than golden but slightly lighter than most regular pints of bitter.

Btw, when you get British malted Munich it tends to fall in colour between the German light and dark Munich malts. ('Munich malt' has been malted in Britain for over a hundred years.)
 
Indeed, but what St Austell use is a malt called Cornish Gold made for them by Tucker's maltsters. Broadly described as being similar to Munich and on the darker end of the scale. Munich or Dark Munich work just fine, it's largely down to preference in the end.
 
I couldnt get dark munich so I was given munich and a bag of roasted barley. Can anyone suggest an amount of barley to use to achieve the correct colour? Im goung to assume not much
 
Not much, probably around an ounce. You can also mill it fine and add it in the boiler towards the end of the boil.
 
This is a real nice recipe. I added 6oz of biscuit and a munich around 19L. W hirlpooled until temp dropped to 160. You could really use this as a base recipe for some pretty tasty beers. Thanks for sharing
 
Pending a move to NC and post arrival of baby number two, I am going to have a try at refining this recipe a little more

First thing to try is going to be to convert this to a no sparge brew. I have my own mill now so have better control of my crush which should help identify any efficiency changes. It's a nice simple recipe and the time saving will be very welcome.

Will also compare a 60 and 90m boil along with that.

My new LHBS also stocks a floor malted Maris Otter and a couple of brands of Munich, so I'll try them all too and bring back any learnings.
 
Ok so im finally getting round to making this. Problem is, the rwcipe calls for 7lb of marris otter. Ive got 9.9lb (4.5kg) and havent got another recipe or batch to make for a while and dont want to waste the extra 2lb that i have. What harm would it do to add all 9.9lb to the brew without adding more water? I have the correct amount of munich. Any advise will be appreciated
 
Also, what difference would a 90 to 60min boil make? Other than final batch size and gravity? Just curious thats all
 
It'll come out stronger with the extra 2lbs of Maris Otter. You might bump up the late hops a little to compensate or just brew as is and enjoy. It'll still be good beer

Going from a 90 to 60 min boil is not really expected to do much. I'd knock down the sparge volume a bit to hit the same post boil volume and gravity. There doesn't really seem to be a good reason to do a 60m boil for this recipe and it will be a timesaver.
 
Back
Top