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Old 04-05-2014, 05:56 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by WileECoyote View Post
Hello, Sorry for my ignorance, I haven't seen mention of this.

But isn't their flavor that is also being leached out of the grains ? along with the starch and sugar?

Or is the flavor of the grain being held inside of the starch? or sugar? or both?

Cheers
I like this question but I don't have a solid answer:

Same smash recipe; 5 gallons; MO malt; 1.061 OG:
10 lbs at 85% efficiency
14 lbs at 60% efficiency

Everything else being equal, do the resulting beers taste the same? My instinct says they would taste significantly different in the depth of malt flavors, but the numbers are identical. If they are different resulting beers then this may be a reason to aim for a more reserved efficiency of, say, 70%.


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Old 04-07-2014, 01:22 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by VladOfTrub View Post
A-amylase, basically, liquifies starch turning it into carbohydrate soup. The enzyme breaks down the starch chain somewhat randomly, but at 1-4 links. Everytime it cuts the chain, a reducing end and a non-reducing end are formed. B-amylase will chop off two molecules from only the non-reducing end of the chain and combine the two molecules with one molecule of water, producing maltose. B-amylase, also, can chop off three molecules from the chain and combine with one molecule of water, producing maltriose. The more non reducing ends, the more b-amylase as to work on and the faster it works. Usually, to have conversion happen in ten minutes, the malt needs to have de-branching enzymes in it. The enzymes work with a and b amylase by producing a lot of non reducing ends. The problem is, the enzymes are kilned out of modern malt. It is not unusual for tri-decoction, using under modified malt, to convert in ten minutes. A small portion of the de-branching enzymes remain intact in low temp kilned malt. The decoction brewer, using under modified malt, will employ a rest at the temp favoring dextrinase and maltase. The iodine test is about the only thing a homebrewer can use as a conversion gauge. A way to do the test is to pour a table spoon or so of mash liquid into a plate and drop by drop add iodine to the puddle. Until a layer of iodine is formed. Check the color at the interface. If the color is deep red/brown at the interface, the sample contains gelatinized starch (amylose and large a-limit dextrins (not too good). If the color is light red, the sample contains simple a-limit dextrines. If the color is brown/violet it contains small a-limit dextrins. Absolutely, no color change indicates a good mix of a-limit dextrines (maltose and maltriose). After using iodine a bunch of times, gaining experience, you will be able to gauge what is in the sample by the colors. That is the method Siebel teaches. A drop of liquid into a drop of iodine, don't cut the mustard. Nor, does the chock method. If knowledge of what enzymes do and how they work is desired, Noonan's book on lager brewing is a good primer. The ASBC and ABJ have articles on the subject. Sometimes, there is more to brewing, than dumping hot water on grain. Single infusion allows a brewer to work with an extremely narrow pallette, when enzymatic action is considered. Check out recipes for programmed mashing and notice the various temps employed, that take advantage of enzymatic action. If desiring to move beyond infusion or program mashing, attempt tri-decoction, using low modified malt. You might be amazed at what can be produced. If a brewer is focused on two to three hour brew time, the processes aren't for that brewer.

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Old 04-11-2014, 12:45 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stpug View Post
I like this question but I don't have a solid answer:

Same smash recipe; 5 gallons; MO malt; 1.061 OG:
10 lbs at 85% efficiency
14 lbs at 60% efficiency

Everything else being equal, do the resulting beers taste the same? My instinct says they would taste significantly different in the depth of malt flavors, but the numbers are identical. If they are different resulting beers then this may be a reason to aim for a more reserved efficiency of, say, 70%.
I have stout-tanks 20g vessels, but brew mostly 6 gallon batches. I've been fly sparging, just out of habit, but for such little grain in the MLT it is a pain in the ass. I get low 90's for efficiency. I'd like to start putting out some malty low ABV beers, and I think I'll try not sparging at all, just use a really thin mash. Hopefully that would take the efficiency down a good amount.

I have heard that different efficiencies will produce different beers, even if you get the OG's to line up and have as identical of a mash profile as possible. It would be nice to try the same simple recipes with fly / no sparge to get different efficiencies and compare the final products.

It would take a few iterations though, as I have absolutely no idea what efficiency to expect from no-sparge.
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:41 PM   #44
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Gordon Strong suggests starting by increasing the grain bill by 33% and then dialing in from there. I'll be doing this next week. Mashing as usual and then just adding water to my BK to get desired preboil gravity and volume.
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:36 PM   #45
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I just figured I'd start with the whole preboil volume + absorbed volume in the mlt
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:42 PM   #46
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I just didn't like how thin the mash would be, 2.71 qt/lb, going with a full volume mash. Just a personal preference really.
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:49 AM   #47
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Thanks Vlad, that explained something I had missed.


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Old 04-20-2014, 01:43 AM   #48
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You have a promising career as a spam email author...how about some paragraphs?


You may have a career on the horizon as the Sam Clemens of the forum. Next time I need something proof read, I'll be sure to give you a call, Jr.
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Old 04-20-2014, 02:46 AM   #49
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That post had some good info, but ya gotta admit, it was quite the wall-o-text.
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Old 04-20-2014, 06:14 PM   #50
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Vlad - just curious, where did you learn most of your brewing chemistry?


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