Mash times with BIAB

Spent the last hour reading through older posts about mash times for BIAB. Is there any newer consensus on what is appropriate? I have been thinking about this a bit and wondered if it really depends on what you are trying to get out of your beer. A lot of what I read compares the time it takes with traditional 3V brewing in that, with the sparge, the grains stay in contact with the water for the 60 min mash and the 45-60 minute sparge, so that is given as a reason for at least a 90 minute mash with BIAB. People also reports much shorter conversion times via the iodine test but does that really account for the time it takes for the enzymes to really do there job breaking down amylose and amylopectin (still new so don't really know)? If you were trying to build a beer with more body would a shorter mash time be a good way of doing this with BIAB? Any insight would be appreciated.

I'm still experimenting with the mash times so I don't have a lot of information yet. People have said that with a longer mash time you will get a more fementable wort because the beta amylase takes longer to act. I've been mashing for 30 minutes and getting a FG in the range of 1.001 to 1.004 with a starting OG of 1.055 to 1.060 so it seems like my mash times are plenty long to get action by the beta amylase. BYW, mash temps were in the range of 152 to 155 with the same results so I also have a batch going that was mashed at 160 plus 2 batches with mash times of 10 minutes. Those last 2 batches gave me negative iodine tests at less than 3 minutes.

10 minute mash, nice!

I'm always looking for ways to move things along on brew day, might have to try this, don't have any iodine to check for starches

It seems to be based on what you're looking for in a beer. Whether you want a beer that has a lot of mouthfeel or thinner, chewy or crisp, etc. I have often heard that you want to mash for 90 min if you want to ensure that you get as much conversion as possible. This works great when I'm making a lawnmower beer that I want clean and crisp. But take Biermuncher's Black Pearl porter for example. He only has a 45 min mash in the original recipe. This increases mouthfeel and helps make sure there is more body and residual sweetness to the beer. Other things that would add to that style would be higher mash temps and certainly unfermentable adjuncts like maltodextrin.

So there is no right way for all beers. Mash time is a technique that can be manipulated for what you want to produce.

wilserbrewer said:

10 minute mash, nice!

I'm always looking for ways to move things along on brew day, might have to try this, don't have any iodine to check for starches

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Read this thread and then think about doing a 10 minute mash along with a 30 minute boil. Short brew day? Or is it just a recipe for disaster?

If you try a 10 minute mash without iodine and it doesn't all convert, you will get a starch haze in your beer that you cannot get rid of and your efficiency will be lower since you didn't get all the starches converted. If you do decide to try, make sure your grains are milled very, very fine.

Cider123 said:

It seems to be based on what you're looking for in a beer. Whether you want a beer that has a lot of mouthfeel or thinner, chewy or crisp, etc. I have often heard that you want to mash for 90 min if you want to ensure that you get as much conversion as possible. This works great when I'm making a lawnmower beer that I want clean and crisp. But take Biermuncher's Black Pearl porter for example. He only has a 45 min mash in the original recipe. This increases mouthfeel and helps make sure there is more body and residual sweetness to the beer. Other things that would add to that style would be higher mash temps and certainly unfermentable adjuncts like maltodextrin.

So there is no right way for all beers. Mash time is a technique that can be manipulated for what you want to produce.

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Pleas read post #2 on this thread. I'm getting a FG of 1.001 with a 30 minute mash with an OG of 1.055. How much more attenuation would I get with a 90 minute mash?

I have done some short mashes and boils without issue, say 20 - 30 minutes....never as low as 10 fwiw.

Thanks

RM-MN said:

Pleas read post #2 on this thread. I'm getting a FG of 1.001 with a 30 minute mash with an OG of 1.055. How much more attenuation would I get with a 90 minute mash?

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This is a pretty scientific question. I don't think you could come up with a specific answer unless you took the time to experiment with the recipe and conduct many runs to compare. I just know enough about enzymes to be dangerous. I am not an expert brewer so I could be very wrong here. But here is my interpretation and I welcome feedback.

There are enzymes and their are substrates. The substrates are the starches. As you know, specific substrates are only broken down by their specific enzymes. So would you have more attenuation at 90 min? With temps remaining constant, that would all be based on how much substrate in the wort and how much enzyme. If after 10 min, all the substrates have been converted and enzymes are just sitting around with nothing to break down, then you have all the conversion you're gonna get no matter if you wait 10, 30 or 90 min. You would have to test your recipe with all factors the same except mash times to find most optimum time. If your not happy with the attenuation at the optimal mash time, then you could change another factor, like trying to get more starch/substrate in the wort or changing the temps to get more types of enzymes to be active.

Basically, try a little longer and a little shorter times and see if you get better than 1.001 if that is what you want. Not every beer benefits from total conversion. Again, it's based on what characteristics you are looking for.

With highly enzymatic US malts, the starches will convert in a couple minutes.... all we're waiting for is the soaking of the grain particles, leading to the extraction of the starches so that they can be converted. I do 30-60, depending on temps and grains involved. Longer mashes supposedly lead to thinner beers, but I haven't tested this.

monkeyman1000 said:

If you were trying to build a beer with more body would a shorter mash time be a good way of doing this with BIAB? Any insight would be appreciated.

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In my small experience, temperature affects body more than mash time.

It depends how you think of body. Maltyness? chewiness?

More malty and sweet and some mouthfeel comes from higher mash temps, 156F to 160F to leave more unfermentable sugars. Now, if you let a mash sit for a long time and lose temperature down to (let us exaggerate) 148F, then other enzymes have time to create more fermentables and make it dryer, which can be perceived as thinner. I think adjuncts like flaked oats, barley, or other flaked grains boost the feel more than the brew times.

I've been researching into this and decided to try a two step mash at 145 and 162. My thinking is to keep the total mash time at 60 min but break it up into those two different temps according to what kind of beer you want to make.

I just made a Scotch Ale and mashed at 145 for 15 min and rose temp up to 162 for 45 min. If I had made a lighter beer I would of reversed the times, medium beer I'd even the times 30/30.

This may or may not work, lots of variables but it's fun to try something new.

Thanks of the replies, I just couldn't see there being one definite "right" time for mashing. I personally am trying to get more body in my beers. By that I mean a heavier mouthfeel or chewiness, so I am playing around with maltodextrin, mash temps and times etc. Adding some malto to an amber today at bottling and added some to a Scottish 80 the other day during the boil. both recipes I did without before. Cheers.

RM-MN said:

Pleas read post #2 on this thread. I'm getting a FG of 1.001 with a 30 minute mash with an OG of 1.055. How much more attenuation would I get with a 90 minute mash?

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How fine is your grain milled?

I brewed a sweet stout today. I had my grains double crushed and shortened my mash time to 45 minutes at about 158 ( 156-159 on the stove top). I hit my OG of 1.063. Hopefully the FG will be on target as well. Made for a shorter brew day which was nice.

I'm interested in how these short mashes turn out. I may be wrong but my understanding of your OG readings is that you are measuring total sugars. Wether the sugars are the type your tastes wants is another issue.
Very interesting.

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Mash time is correlated with the diastatic (the amount of enzymes) of the grain in the mash. The more diastatic power = more enzymes = shorter conversion time. I know wheat has very high diastatic power and more modified malts do too and corn has next to none. So depending on the ratio of the grains in the grain bill and their diastatic power will determine the amount of time it takes to achieve complete conversion.

With that said I would still "mash" a little bit longer than needed to account for sparging so that I can get more similar results regardless if I BIAB or 3 vessel brew.