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Old 01-24-2014, 11:52 PM   #11
bajaedition
 
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After reading through the thread I think I can answer the question

to me it sounds like you are having problems with residue from the sanitizers

I laugh when they advertise no rinse sanitizer. face it, if it is going on and killing stuff it needs to be rinses off. and that means HOT water

what causes a chemical reaction? agitation and heat, so what ever the process you use to clean and sanitize, we are going to start over

clean with dish washing soap and then rinse rinse rinse, then once you can no longer raise any bubbles, sanitize, I fill each vessel up and let them sit fo a while, no not 10 minutes more like an hour before I dump and rinse rinse rinse with hot water.
did you run brushes down the dip tubes in the kegging system? how are you cleaning the interiors?
making sure the dip tubes get cleaned and rinsed?
did you clean our the lines on the tap system?

If your beer is tasting good after fermentation but changes between then and dispensing, then the problem is more than likely in the methods of cleaning or the rinsing the containers you are putting it in.

good luck, it does not sound like it will be hard to fix
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:58 PM   #12
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To the OP, you said your fermentation temps have been controlled and within the thresholds of the yeast, but can you give more details about what you are doing?

I ask because "soapy" is a flavor I have had before. I usually attribute it to a Yeast issue. A couple thoughts.
  1. Temp: It may say that you can ferment between 60 and 75 degrees, but you often find a different range of flavors at the high end than you get at the low end. Most yeasts seem to do best at the low end of the ranges.
  2. Pitch amount: If you are just pitching a single smack pack you might be underpitching. Actually, it is conventional wisdom that it is not enough yeast. You could try a starter which is pretty low effort at it's most basic and give big benefits for fast and healthy fermentations which can eliminate "off" flavors.

I honestly think an infection is not that likely.

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 12:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foosier View Post
NO, NO, NO. Campden DOES get rid of chlorine AND chloramines. That is the preferred solution if you are not using RO water. Please check the Brew Science sticky if you have questions on proper campden usage.
I mis-read my old notes. Campden tablets do remove chloramines. Very sorry.

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 04:47 PM   #14
695fingers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bajaedition View Post
After reading through the thread I think I can answer the question

to me it sounds like you are having problems with residue from the sanitizers

I laugh when they advertise no rinse sanitizer. face it, if it is going on and killing stuff it needs to be rinses off. and that means HOT water
I had had that thought as well. The issue, in my head anyway, was that I would have to rinse with hot tap water and my local water has chlorine and chloramines. So I was not sure if that would help or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foosier View Post
To the OP, you said your fermentation temps have been controlled and within the thresholds of the yeast, but can you give more details about what you are doing?

I ask because "soapy" is a flavor I have had before. I usually attribute it to a Yeast issue. A couple thoughts.
  1. Temp: It may say that you can ferment between 60 and 75 degrees, but you often find a different range of flavors at the high end than you get at the low end. Most yeasts seem to do best at the low end of the ranges.
  2. Pitch amount: If you are just pitching a single smack pack you might be underpitching. Actually, it is conventional wisdom that it is not enough yeast. You could try a starter which is pretty low effort at it's most basic and give big benefits for fast and healthy fermentations which can eliminate "off" flavors.
Most of the beers have been fermented in the mid 60's. I place the thermometer from the temp. controller on the side of the fermenter then place a towel over that.

I've been using dry yeast to date so I figured I would be getting enough yeast cell count wise. I had been just pitching it in but maybe rehydrating would help on the next one.

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:03 PM   #15
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I disagree with this, my opinions in red

Quote:
Originally Posted by bajaedition View Post
After reading through the thread I think I can answer the question

to me it sounds like you are having problems with residue from the sanitizers

I laugh when they advertise no rinse sanitizer. face it, if it is going on and killing stuff it needs to be rinses off. and that means HOT water

Do not rinse off sanitizers if they are contact sanitizers. Starsan for one is no longer working if you rinse it off and will impart no off flavors to your beer.

what causes a chemical reaction? agitation and heat, so what ever the process you use to clean and sanitize, we are going to start over

clean with dish washing soap I suggest keeping dish soap out of your process entirely. They have agents in them to reduce spotting when dishware dries. This could remain on your equipment even with thorough rinsing.and then rinse rinse rinse, then once you can no longer raise any bubbles, sanitize, I fill each vessel up and let them sit fo a while, no not 10 minutes more like an hour before I dump and rinse rinse rinse with hot water.
did you run brushes down the dip tubes in the kegging system? how are you cleaning the interiors?
making sure the dip tubes get cleaned and rinsed?
did you clean our the lines on the tap system?

If your beer is tasting good after fermentation but changes between then and dispensing, then the problem is more than likely in the methods of cleaning or the rinsing the containers you are putting it in.

good luck, it does not sound like it will be hard to fix
You noted that you control your fermentation temperatures. I suggest remaining in the lower half of the range.

I would get a new fermenting bucket and try spring water to see if you can narrow down the source of your problem.

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:35 PM   #16
micros101
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I would also try using a Brita filter or a pur filter for your tap water. I have done this for all my brews and have had no problems. All I have used is starsan for everything and again, everything has turned out fine.

 
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Old 01-25-2014, 06:47 PM   #17
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Also keep in mind that PBW needs to be rinsed off after cleaning or soaking. Starsan should not be mixed more than 3/4's of the way up to the 1/4oz mark on the little built in measure on top of the bottle to 1 gallon of water,distilled is best. Just buy a gallon of distilled water & dump that amount in. don't use more that the amount I mentioned per gallon jug of water. Or 1oz per 5 gallons of water. That might cause a problem. Properly mixed,it's no rinse & breaks down into yeast nutrient. I switched to using local spring water from White House Artisian Springs @ 25c per gallon. The yeast seem to love it & it gives good flavors. And mid-60's is def a good temp for most ale yeasts.
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:10 PM   #18
bajaedition
 
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Rinse with hot water

no mater what the sanitizer says

you need to rinse it to remove off flavors

no mater what the sanitizer says

Hot Water

Hot water helps to rinse it off and many chemicals are will vaporize at temps less than boiling

you can not argue with a proven method, you can disagree all you want, but proven methods work

rinse in hot water
such as bleach

hot water helps in chemical reaction

rinse in hot water

no mater what sanitizer says, leaving a residue leaves that chemical in the beer once it touches it.

bottom line is this, a chemical may not need to be rinsed to loss it effectiveness, but it does need to be rinsed to remove any taste it has

taste the chemical, do you want that taste in your beer?

rinse with hot water

what do you have to lose, you are not rinsing because of the chlorinated tap water, Hot tap water will vaporize chlorine from the water
and if not rinsing leaves a taste, maybe you should rinse to see if it works.

I do not have off flavors, one of my basic techniques I have used for over a decade is I always triple rinse with hot water.
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:49 PM   #19
unionrdr
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Look at your tap water under a microscope. It's not exactly clean by the time it gets to your house. And rinsing off a no-rinse sanitizer kills any sanitization you had. Starsan never leaves off flavors in my beers. Off flavors are elevated levels of normal fermentation by products & water chemistry,mainly.
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:42 PM   #20
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Why not try running a 'blank'?
Try a no-boil LME(hopped) + corn sugar, nutrient, distilled water, big starter, cool ferment, see how THAT tastes, then make your changes one-at-a-time.
Doesn't have to be a large batch, just a volume that minimizes headspace.

 
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