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Old 11-19-2007, 07:11 PM   #1
jaa2m
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Hi all,

In a passing conversation with the LHBS guru, he mentioned that the size of the boil makes a difference in the amount of hops you use. I wanted to understand the difference in a 3 gallon boil and a 5 gallon boil. Is there a saturation point or somehting that makes the difference? I base most of my recipes off 3 gallon boils but end up doing 5-6 gallon boils.

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Old 11-19-2007, 07:14 PM   #2
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Bigger boils = better utilization. You get more out of the hops, the more wort you boil...

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-5.html
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Old 11-19-2007, 08:01 PM   #3
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You really ought to be adjusting your hops if you're taking 3-gal-boil recipes and doing a full boil. It's very easy to see the change if you stick the recipe in brewing software (such as beersmith) and change the boil size. Based on a quick check, it appears that taking a 3-gallon recipe and doing a full boil will increase bitterness (IBU's) by about 50%, which is very significant.

 
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Old 11-19-2007, 10:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulive21
Bigger boils = better utilization. You get more out of the hops, the more wort you boil...

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-5.html
Sorry, but that's not true...

Right there in your reference it states: "hop utilization decreases with increasing wort gravity. The higher concentration of sugars makes it more difficult for the isomerized alpha acids to dissolve."

The important factor for bitterness extraction is the gravity.

In Charlie P's TCJOHB it states the MAXIMUM hop bitterness extraction of 30% is achieved at a gravity of 1.040.

1 lb of DME in 1 gal of water with 1 oz of hops is approximately 1.040.
Supersizing that to 5 gal and 5 lbs of DME would be the same (approximate)gravity. Adding more malt lowers the utilization.
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Old 11-19-2007, 10:32 PM   #5
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I think by bigger boils he means "More Gallons In The Kettle" not "More Gravity In The Wort". Read the reference again. He's right.

 
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Old 11-19-2007, 10:39 PM   #6
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homebrewer_99, I'm not quite sure I understand your point. At first glance it seems you are arguing the same point he was.

On closer inspection of Soulive's post, I guess there is one ambiguity - bigger boils at the same gravity do not mean increased utilization, but a bigger boil of a given recipe (with a certain amount of fermentables) would indeed increase utilization as compared to a more concentrated boil of the same recipe. Reading his response, it seems to me the "of a given recipe" was assumed, given the context of the original question, which was specifically asking about different boil sizes of a given recipe.

 
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:09 PM   #7
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homebrewer is just clarifying that even a full boil might have lower hop utilization if its a really big beer...like a barley wine or something.

basically its the gravity within the volume, not the volume alone.
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:10 PM   #8
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OK, I think you guys misunderstand my point...

His comment was: "Bigger boils = better utilization. You get more out of the hops, the more wort you boil..."

If a recipe calls for 8 lbs of DME (in 5 gals of water) the hop utilization will drop because it is a high gravity brew. Conversely, if only 4 lbs of DME is boiled in 5 gal of water with the same amount of hops the brew would seem overhopped (when infact it is really under-malted as in a good balance).

My point here is the extraction of the bitterness is maximized (at 30%) when 1 lb of malt is boiled in 1 gal of water with 1 oz of hops for a period of 60 mins (per Papazian's TCJOHB, 3rd Ed, Hop Utilization Chart, page 258), and utilization (bitterness extraction) is reduced the higher the gravity of the wort.

I am sure I'm misunderstanding "something", but this is how it is stated in the book.

As I see it the simple math would be to divide the smaller number by the larger to get the numbers you need to downsize the water/malt/hop requirements/measurements to keep the brew balanced.
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:11 PM   #9
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I think people are saying the same thing in different ways.

 
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryA
I think people are saying the same thing in different ways.
Hey, anything's possible...
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