3-in-1 "Boil Kettle, Jacketed Chiller, Conical Fermenter" by Brewha

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

MeetsCriteria

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
117
Reaction score
12
Location
San Diego
Well, I haven't seen anything on this specific topic.

I've had a 120v HERMS mash system for a over a year now but have been using propane for the boil.

Recently, I've been looking to go electric on my brew kettle. Through that search, I discovered the 3-in-1 "Boil Kettle, Jacketed Chiller, Conical Fermenter" by Brewha. I've seen nothing on the forum yet either debating its design, or any posts from early adopters. It seems amazingly promising.

Check it out:

http://brewha.co/products/3-in-1

Long story short, I decided to pull the trigger on it, so mine is "in the mail" as they say.

I'll periodically update my experiences (which are hopefully excellent) for general consumption of the community. Wish me luck!

Cheers,

Mike

Full Disclosure: I have no private or public interest in Breha or its products. My post is simply for information purposes only.
 
That is a fancy piece of kit.

Are you to complete the boil, chill with the jacket, pitch yeast, and wait for primary to finish all in the same vessel?
 
Throw a bag in it and either through the element or the jacket maintain mash and it's a one stop shop. Maybe that's what is already intended not sure. When thinking about hot break and cold break and other parts that are typically left behind I thought maybe this was not good to use same vessel but I think it would work out just fine. Last question, does it bottle? Jk.
 
That is some serious bling. Did you get any of the accessories, like the controller and elements? Or are you DIY-ing those bits?

They cover cooling fermentation pretty well, but I'm curious how you'd handle raising fermentation temps. Would you use the immersed heating element? (Since most two-stage controllers are 120v, you'd probably need to swap out the 240v element from the boil for a separate 120v element.) And would an immersed element scorch the fermentation, since you wouldn't have anything to stir the wort/beer? Or would you put a mixing valve on the jacket inlet and run domestic hot water through the jacket via a second solenoid valve?
 
This is pretty cool. I too wonder about heating during fermentation. Maybe you could DIY a controller and mixing valve to pump heat and/or cooled liquid through the jacket? It'd also limit you to brew/fermenting one beer at a time.
 
assuming it comes with valves and clamps, it's a good price even if it's just a 16 gallon jacketed fermeter.

one problem I can see is rust with a heating element submerged in liquid for weeks at a time.
 
if it's fully stainless steel, rust should be no problem.
This thing is pretty rad though, after brewing, let it settle and chill for a few hours and dump the trub out the bottom and no sanitation concerns with xfering. love it!
 
if it's fully stainless steel, rust should be no problem.


The base of the element itself is not stainless, so it will rust unless you coat it in silicon or put in a sacrificial anode. I don't know that anyone has tried either approach in a fermenter.
 
LandoLincoln said:
I wouldn't want my brew kettle tied up for weeks with fermenting beer in it. But that's just me.

I agree, but if it can hold pressure you could go that route and speed things up some.
 
I'm not sure I'd want to leave the element in it when you are fermenting either , I'm wondering though If you could use an insulated RIMS tube as an external calandria. I sure like their stuff though, and 1400 is a good price for a jacketed fermenter.
 
That is a fancy piece of kit.

Are you to complete the boil, chill with the jacket, pitch yeast, and wait for primary to finish all in the same vessel?

That's the idea. There's a video on their website that gives a fairly nice demo:

http://brewha.co/blogs/brewha-video...d-chilling-wort-and-readying-for-fermentation

Throw a bag in it and either through the element or the jacket maintain mash and it's a one stop shop. Maybe that's what is already intended not sure. When thinking about hot break and cold break and other parts that are typically left behind I thought maybe this was not good to use same vessel but I think it would work out just fine. Last question, does it bottle? Jk.

It has crossed my mind that one could use the "brew in a bag" technique and really make it a do-all vessel. I may try that, as time goes on...if nothing else than to say that I did!

That is some serious bling. Did you get any of the accessories, like the controller and elements? Or are you DIY-ing those bits?

They cover cooling fermentation pretty well, but I'm curious how you'd handle raising fermentation temps. Would you use the immersed heating element? (Since most two-stage controllers are 120v, you'd probably need to swap out the 240v element from the boil for a separate 120v element.) And would an immersed element scorch the fermentation, since you wouldn't have anything to stir the wort/beer? Or would you put a mixing valve on the jacket inlet and run domestic hot water through the jacket via a second solenoid valve?

I've thought about raising temps, and already personally excluded the possibility of using the intrinsic element to heat it...I would think that yeast on the element would lyse (or worse). I will probably just leave water in the jacket and put a ferm wrap on it, similar to how I did on my old conical. But having a second solenoid with hot water would probably work too. I suspect in the summer, it'll be water cooling, in the winter (basement) either hot water or the ferm wrap...time will tell!
 
assuming it comes with valves and clamps, it's a good price even if it's just a 16 gallon jacketed fermeter.

one problem I can see is rust with a heating element submerged in liquid for weeks at a time.

I was worried about rust on the element, and I know many have installed anodes in their brew kettles to combat this problem. I did have a concern in this regard and this was the manufacturers response:

"Since the plug [for the heating element] is made of mild steel, the only concern would be rust. However, a protective coating will form on the element base after a few uses and in the 3-in-1, the boiling and subsequent fermentation removes oxygen from the vessel so any oxidation is negligible. I have brewed many batches with the 3-in-1 and yet to notice any rust on the plug."

Again, time will tell, but the anecdotal evidence referenced by the manufacturer is about all I had to go on at the time.
 
I wouldn't want my brew kettle tied up for weeks with fermenting beer in it. But that's just me.

That is a potential weak point. I anticipate it being less of an issue given the frequency I brew. I still have my old 14 gal conical (though I will undoubtedly sell it, as it's hard to justify both for me). Alternatively, additional batches could go straight to carboys. For me, it's not a total deal breaker, but I get the concern for sure.

I agree, but if it can hold pressure you could go that route and speed things up some.

I'm pretty sure it only holds up to 5 psi. I don't think it was designed for pressurized fermentations, like say the brewhemoth can when configured with a spending valve:

http://brewhemoth.com/spunding-valve
 
I'm not sure I'd want to leave the element in it when you are fermenting either , I'm wondering though If you could use an insulated RIMS tube as an external calandria. I sure like their stuff though, and 1400 is a good price for a jacketed fermenter.

Yes, 1400 is a great price of a jacketed fermenter, particularly when you factor in all the tri-clover fittings and the number of ports.

I did express concerns about leaving the element in the fermenter during fermentation to the manufacturer. I alluded to these concerns earlier and the manufacturer did respond and likewise posted it on their BREWblog, which I thought was nice:

http://brewha.co/blogs/brewhablog/10889885-are-ulwd-electric-heating-elements-safe-for-beer

In the end, to me, it is going to be sort of like brewing with coolers and trying to get absolute reassurance from the manufacturer that they safe to brew with (though in that case there is strong anecdotal evidence which suggests that they are safe).

Likewise, I don't think it will be possible, in today's litigious age, to get absolute reassurance from the manufacturer (of the elements themselves) for "off-label" use of equipment. I do appreciate that these elements are used in hot water heaters and folks have now been using them to boil wort with for sometime. What will be the effect over the long haul of fermenting with these elements left in place over time? There's no way to know for sure. Therein lies the "risk" of being an early adopter of new techniques / applications of technology.

My hope is that we will develop a body of evidence that tells us how good this idea this is. I've found nothing like it thus far. The concept of the 3-in-1 is very intriguing...even compelling, but I'll post my experiences so others can be the judge and perhaps come up with new ways to improve the process.

All of us are the benefactors of those who've come before us, and since there is an absolute paucity of data on this particular topic, I was compelled to post on it.

I'm reminded of Sir Isaac Newton whom history indicates as having said, "If I have seen further it is by standing on the sholders of giants."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton

My adaptation will be, "If I have brewed better, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

Cheers,

Mike
 
What's up with the $320 center inlet chugger pump????

It has struck me that that some of the "extras" are on the expensive side of things. I'm sure if you priced / sourced everything separate you'd save 100$ or there about. One thing that has surprised me is the cost of braided silicone tubing. They sell it for 10$ per foot, the cheapest I've found it for on the internet is 5-6$ / foot.
 
This thing looks, well ... bad ASS. I'm definitely looking forward to your experiences.
 
Well, the Brewha 3-in-1 got here...just before the ice did! Pics soon to follow...but it really is a work of art!

Another pleasant surprise was that I thought I would miss a racking arm too much, so I found this solution (bought separately) which fits the Brewha perfectly:

http://conical-fermenter.com/Racking-Arm-for-400mm-Diameter-Fermenters.html

One thing for sure, the thing is so shiny, it's hard to take a picture of it!!!
 
The base of the element itself is not stainless, so it will rust unless you coat it in silicon or put in a sacrificial anode. I don't know that anyone has tried either approach in a fermenter.

ah! good point, i forgot about that completely...
 
I got the 3-in-1 into the basement. It'll be a week until I can brew as I need to get a few other things configured.

photo.jpg


As an aside, the staff from brewha have been excellent. Communication is quick and courteous. There was a slight problem in that a caster was bent despite crating (shipping weight was 130# and UPS must have dropped it). While expected, they (brewha) was very quick to respond and empathetic. They really went out of their way to make sure everything was OK. I even got a personal email, within 1 hour of delivery asking if everything had arrived in good order!

Fit and finish is also impressive. There's the 2" fitting for the element, a 1.5" port for racking (where I added the racking arm), and 2 1" ports for temp measuring (such as PID) and the conventional brew thermometer. Then there's the two water jacket ports, one low and one high. The bottom of the conical is a 1.5" port, so no problem dumping trub, especially considering that we're boiling in the conical. This doesn't count the 2 1.5" ports on the lid!

One thing that surprised me: they even shined the visible surface of the conical which is visible THROUGH the water jacket ports! That really demonstrates the attention to aesthetics and functionality. It feels like a major upgrade from my already luxurious 14 gal blichman fermenator! Everything on the interior is smooth...no internal welds.

photo2.jpg

Finally there are THREE sanitary valves like these. http://www.brewershardware.com/1-Tri-Clover-Tri-Clamp-Ball-Valve-Quick-Clean.html

Really seems like a bargain what with all those fittings, the fit and finish, the water jacket, and the functionality.

If there is a downside to this thing, I haven't seen it yet! Of course, brewing with it will tell the story!

I will also keep before and after pics of the base of the element overtime to document what occurs there...

More to follow!
 
I was worried about rust on the element, and I know many have installed anodes in their brew kettles to combat this problem. I did have a concern in this regard and this was the manufacturers response:

"Since the plug [for the heating element] is made of mild steel, the only concern would be rust. However, a protective coating will form on the element base after a few uses and in the 3-in-1, the boiling and subsequent fermentation removes oxygen from the vessel so any oxidation is negligible. I have brewed many batches with the 3-in-1 and yet to notice any rust on the plug."

Again, time will tell, but the anecdotal evidence referenced by the manufacturer is about all I had to go on at the time.

The quote about a protective coating will form on the element is what I experienced in my boil kettle. The base of the element rusted during a water test, but has not rusted since. Do a boil test with water and see before your brew day. Unit looks very nice, by the way.
 
Busy week at work but finally got around to a water test.

There were some minor leaks involving one of the valves and the connection between the 2" triclover to 1" NPS fitting on the element box.

The former was easily remedied by tightening the valve.

The latter was slightly more trying in that I had to take the element apart to re-do the teflon tape and tighten it down a bit more. But, after that, no leaks. Was planning on brewing tomorrow but that delayed the remainder of my preparations, so will likely brew on Monday.

But, I did fire it up. 6 gal from roughly 50F to 120F in less than 15 min. I can tell I'm going to like having 240V!!!

photo1.jpg
 
If nothing else, the jacketed conical is worth it alone.

The idea of near-sterile fermenting is very interesting.

If they make a bigger one, you could potentially have single vessel brewing / fermenting. I guess you could probably do a 5g batch in that one. Just a matter of finding a false bottom for a bag to rest on to keep it above the heating element.

I hope somebody does that
 
Well, I FINALLY was able to brew on Sunday afternoon.

I have to say, the 3-in-1 delivered.

I preheated the water in the 3-in-1 then pumped it to the mash tun and HLT. I then mashed in and ran HERMS like normal. Then I ran off and sparged (had issue with air getting into my pump due to poor positioning of the HLT sight glass off the sparge OUT side of things. That let to a lot of scrambling WRT pump, etc. Long story short I had poor efficiency which in the past has never been an issue...but that had nothing to do with the 3-in-1.

The poor efficiency, in part, led to my needing to boil 2 hrs longer than forecast. Boil off rate was about 1.6 GPH.

As there isn't a sight glass on the 3-in-1 and it isn't calibrated internally, I used a makeshift solution: stainless steel ruler calibrated to volume. Basically 33 mm = 1 gal (at least at the level of the upper cylinder of the conical, where it matters. Here is a pic as I was nearing the boil.

IMG_1205-1.jpg


I after boil, I cooled via water jacket with lid on and valve open on top. It took about 1 hour to cool 7.5 gallons, but admittedly I did not do this very scientifically. I didn't check temp out on the water jacket vs. flow rate. By no means did I have the water on "full blast", so I antiquate that this was operator error. Brewha claims 40 min or so to chill 10 gal with 50F input water. I have no real reason to doubt this and will be investigating further in the future.

Once was at 75F I dumped the grub, which was super easy. Once things cleared reasonably, I was done. Am certain there was less waste than in my old flat bottomed boil kettle...and added bonus.

After I pitched yeast, I hooked up the water jacket to a chugger pump and bucket heater on temp controller. So basically the heater comes on at 66F to recirculate warm water, cutting on/off as appropriate to maintain 67-68F. It's 56F in the basement. That's been working like a charm for the past 2 days. I also rigged up a blow-off tube. I averted major disaster after I went to bed I remembered I'd left the valve CLOSED on the blow-off. I ran down stairs and opened it up. Of course nothing bad happened, but I can only imagine the outcome in the morning...disaster!

IMG_1210.jpg


Once the batch is done, I'll get a chance to inspect the element such to see what the effect is on leaving it in the fermenting beer, etc.

Clearly there was a time savings having the boil kettle and fermenter combined. It was a joy to use. The water jacket is going to come in handy this summer and I'll be able to ditch the old fridge taking up space in my basement that I was using as a fermentation chamber. For the winter, this solution woks great for now. A ferm wrap would likely work fine as well, especially if you had water in the jacket to act as as both an insulation / conduction medium.
 
Any updates? How's it been?

Did you purchase the digital temp controller and the water chiller controller with the 3 in 1?

I'm going to buying one of these very soon and any feedback you're able to provide would be awesome!
 
It's been great. I absolutely love it. I'm in the middle of my second batch. It's so easy to dump the trub after the boil and cooling. I think having a good hot break, then cold break in the fermenter as chilling then dumping the trub prior to pitching yeast really helped with clearing the beer up faster. But that's based on a single batch observation...

As suspected there was some mild corrosion on the element base after the first batch. This is not "rust" in the conventional use of the term (i.e. iron oxide). It turns out that iron can undergo corrosion in anaerobic conditions, which can be facilitated by acidifying the solution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_corrosion

I suspect the corrosion I saw was magnetite, as it was black and sort of chalky in appearance. I am told that over time this will likely diminish as the element develops a "protective layer". This has been the experience of the folks at Brewha, and at least to some extent is alluded to here:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/heating-element-kits

In any case, I am sure it's a much slower process than conventional oxidation (i.e. corrosion in the presence of oxygen). Further, magnatite is used in the process of "bluing steel" which can actually protect against what we traditionally think of as "rust" (iron oxide). Think "cold blue steel". :rockin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluing_(steel)

So, at least in theory, it would seem to hold that the element base initially undergoes anaerobic corrosion, and a "protective" layer of magnatite forms, thus limiting all forms of corrosion in the future. It probably takes a few batches for this protective layer to mature.

Despite the scientific explanation and seemingly sound line of reasoning, I subsequently elected to get an element with a stainless base, which is what I am using in the current batch. In the end, I asked myself if there was a stainless steel option, why would I NOT want it. There wasn't a clear answer to this question...

I'm sure I would have been fine had there not been a stainless steel option...I haven't seen the results of fermenting with the new element yet. My plan was to take a picture of it after fermentation is done and compare to the prior element. I'll post those results here.

But I endorse the 3-in-1 wholeheartedly. Having a jacketed fermenter is great. Boiling in it is a bonus!

If you go for it, be sure to post your results and experiences!

Cheers!
 
Thanks for the feedback. I actually ordered one yesterday..now the waiting begins!

Did you buy the digital temp controller and water chiller controller from Brewha?
 
Congratulations!

I did get the water chiller controller. I already have temp controllers so didn't need more in that regard.

Just saw this:

http://brewha.co/products/mash-colander

Did you get the BIAC? Since already have a HERMS set up so hard to justify at this point, but it is very intriguing...

I also got one of these from brewhemoth:

https://brewhemoth.com/pressurizer

It makes transfer via CO2 a breeze.

A word of caution. I almost exploded my 3-in-1 after my second brew session!

I had left the valve CLOSED on the blow off assembly after brewing. When I got up at 5 am the morning after brewing (having gone to bed at 0100) I saw no bubble activity but wasn't too surprised. I checked again at round 1400 and surprised that there was STILL no bubble activity. I had the gas in fitting from brewhemoth on the 3-in-1 with a pressure relief valve on it and for whatever reason pulled on the relieve valve. Gas shot out of there, like a keg pressurized to 20+ PSI. I looked at the valve on the blow-off assembly and couldn't believe it was closed.

I had the sudden feeling one standing next to a bomb must feel when they realize it's about to go off. The lid was noticeably convex up and I let off the pressure from the pressure relief valve, then opened the blow off valve. There was no apparent damage to the 3-in-1, but then it was blowing off co2 like crazy and it must have been moments away from blowing up.

So, be advised it's easy to leave that valve closed. Be careful! It's one thing to blow up a bucket...it's another to blow this thing up! The purpose of that valve of course is have a way to shut off the blow off assembly in order to push out the beer with CO2 if that's how you want to do it.

Good luck!
 
I didn't go with the BIAC - I plan on brewing 10g batches and would prefer to use a separate mash tun.

Is there any reason you added the brewhemoth pressurizer? I was under the impression you just add a ball lock (or pin lock) post to the included triclover fitting on the top of the lid?
 
I think the issue becomes HOW exactly does one "add" a ball lock to the tri-clover fitting.

The pressurizer is one such solution, which involves welding the fittings together. I am not aware of a direct off-the shelf compatible connection between a ball-lock fitting and a tri-clover fitting. But if you find a different solution, I am sure there will be many who are interested!
 
I think the issue becomes HOW exactly does one "add" a ball lock to the tri-clover fitting.

The pressurizer is one such solution, which involves welding the fittings together. I am not aware of a direct off-the shelf compatible connection between a ball-lock fitting and a tri-clover fitting. But if you find a different solution, I am sure there will be many who are interested!

Am I wrong in thinking that I could just screw one of these into the included 1/4" threaded female triclover, then attach a ball lock post to this?

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/kegg...-fittings/cornelius-plug-adapter-1-4-mpt.html
 
Despite the scientific explanation and seemingly sound line of reasoning, I subsequently elected to get an element with a stainless base, which is what I am using in the current batch. In the end, I asked myself if there was a stainless steel option, why would I NOT want it. There wasn't a clear answer to this question...



I'm sure I would have been fine had there not been a stainless steel option...I haven't seen the results of fermenting with the new element yet. My plan was to take a picture of it after fermentation is done and compare to the prior element. I'll post those results here.

I wasn't aware they made elements with stainless bases. Do you have a link for what you used?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Congratulations!

I did get the water chiller controller. I already have temp controllers so didn't need more in that regard.

Just saw this:

http://brewha.co/products/mash-colander

Did you get the BIAC? Since already have a HERMS set up so hard to justify at this point, but it is very intriguing...

I normally don't get all distracted my fancy brew objects, but I do love BIAB, and have been wanting to go electric, and have a nice conical. This setup looks PIMP, and the cost is totally justifiable! WANT!!
 
Interesting concept....seems like the system is totally useable for someone who brews every other week. Primary fermentation actually doesn't take too long if you pitch properly....transferring to kegs could be done at the beginning of the brew day or the night before. Actually pretty cost effective when you look at how expensive some of these Blichmann/B3 3 vessel builds and sculptures are, and for the folks who also have a 10 gallon fermenter, you can bet they spent at LEAST $3000 for a system and conical altogether.
 
Back
Top