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Old 11-18-2007, 05:16 AM   #1
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So I watched some of Sicko and watched the Democrat debate last week. Both preached "Universal" Health Care. I disagree with this pretty much. I think we have a good system in place. We just need to regulate the insurance companies differently like we do many other sectors.

However I got to thinking about the concept ...

We already have free/low health care access to those who are poor called Medicaid. Medicaid is also available to people who might not be poor but have huge medical bills though it might be hard to get accepted.

We also have the same program for food. People who cannot afford food can get free food via food stamps. Very simple to get, I know.

Food is very important, I would argue having food is more important than having health care access.

So before we come up with a program that will give health care access to all through taxes why not a program that will give food to all through taxes? Or what am I missing here?

If everyone has the right to health care from taxes, why not food, why not shelter, why not clothing? All are basic essentials to live.
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Old 11-18-2007, 05:33 AM   #2
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Sign me up for lobster for life!!! Aim high!

But seriously, aiming high is what I think this is all about. I can't speak for dem leadership, but I don't think that they believe they will ever get universal healthcare passed, even if they had both houses and the White House. They are asking for the whole enchilada hoping they will get some concessions over time (which I think is a bad strategy). If they really want to push healthcare as an agenda, they should just shoot for partial free healthcare (ie. free physicals and preventive medicine, pay for everything else). Tax payers pay for all sorts of healthcare for people that let themselves get sick to the point of needing huge amounts of medical resources when some preventive medicine early on could avoid much of it.

Free food is an interesting idea - so much of the poor health in this country is due to overeating or poor nutritional habits. Gov't: "Here you go - you get your free food, but you eat only this healthy stuff we give you".

Free stuff - I'm not sure that's what this country needs - another reason to be even more lazy than we are collectively getting already.
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Old 11-18-2007, 07:50 AM   #3
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How about reducing tax cuts for the oil companies and have them pay for it?

I think we have enough programs in place to support the lazy as is. I have no problem helping out people with a real need. But, IMHO, if you make it easier for people to go on the dole, then they will. Hell, I wouldn't work 50 hours a week if I knew somebody was going to pay for my food, clothing and housing. I'd just go fishing everyday, which is what I'm working towards. I wish somebody would come up with a tax program where I could qualify for free gasoline. I have a 56 mile commute everyday, a major part of my budget is just to get to work......

 
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Old 11-18-2007, 08:28 AM   #4
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Just think what we could do with 460 BILLION dollars. That's how much we've spent in iraq so far. Don't get me wrong, I totally support our troops as I have about 10 close friends there, but our misguided president, preaching a majority of lies, has us in deep. We could easily have taken on the proposed universal food and healthcare if we hadn't taken on iraq's, "Dubya M. D's.... that we didn't find.."

Those are my ramblings. I am not out to offend anyone. If I did, I am DEEPLY sorry.

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Old 11-18-2007, 01:53 PM   #5
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How about improving public education so that people can actually obtain jobs that will provide money for them to feed themselves and decent health insurance through their employer?

Personally I think better education is the answer to a lot of our problems and given that in some places we have some of the highest education spending per child I don't think throwing money at the problem is the solution. Also, No Child Left Behind is a joke and the name of the program is offensive once you understand what it was designed to do - namely, kick the under performing kids out of school.
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Old 11-18-2007, 02:33 PM   #6
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[quote=fretman124]How about reducing tax cuts for the oil companies and have them pay for it? [quote]

Why should a singular minority pay for programs that benefit the majority?

While I agree that the big oil companies have more than enough profits to solve a lot of problems in this country, they should not be expected to.

What if someone proposed that all breweries in fork over a percentage of their profits to help take care of progams such as healthcare, etc.? That would seem ridiculous to most of us, but it's no different than expecting the big oil companies to do it (or forcing them to do it).

Businesses are in business to make money, not support government programs. They should not be singled out just because they have insane profit margins...they pay taxes on what they make just like everyone else.
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Old 11-18-2007, 03:22 PM   #7
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[QUOTE=ohiobrewtus]
Quote:
Originally Posted by fretman124
Why should a singular minority pay for programs that benefit the majority?
Well said! For example, the recent proposed SCHIP Bill. Take a look at where that money was to come from... tobacco. Aside from the fact that the 20,000% (yes, 20,000) tax increase on cigars would have put an end to the US cigar industry/market (seriously), with tobacco use on such a decline, it doesn't seem like a very reliable source of revenue. Plus there's just something wrong with collecting money from something that is a risk to health to fund healthcare. Americans would have to smoke more so the government could collect more taxes. Luckily it was vetoed, but I doubt it's over.

 
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Old 11-18-2007, 04:02 PM   #8
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Uh Oh. This thread is like a powder keg! I watched the dem debate and was just really disappointed by the mudslinging. I think Hillary (no matter what your opinion of her may be) did well when she basically said, "Let the people make the decision for themselves" and removed herself from the petty arguing.

On another note, I was watching a show on MSNBC about homeless youth in SanFran, and realized that only in America do you see fat homeless people. I think that says a lot about our economy, work ethic, and healthcare system.

 
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Old 11-18-2007, 04:20 PM   #9
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Americans sense of entitlement is astonishing. As a white male, I get whatever I can pay for: no more, no less. [After taxes, of course.]
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Old 11-19-2007, 07:39 PM   #10
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Why would you need universal health care?

Funnily I watched a show this weekend that listed the top 5 countries for life longevity. Although Canada wasn't in the top 5 (it is 6th) we are pretty high up there. The USA was 42nd...

The good way to think about it is: The longer people live healthy, the longer they will be able to work, the longer they will be able to pay taxes. So by spending a certain amount on universal health care, you gain more money by having a healthier working population.
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