Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Lambic & Wild Brewing > Ecy20
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-08-2014, 01:25 AM   #11
smokinghole
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
smokinghole's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lucid Dream Land
Posts: 2,917
Liked 125 Times on 102 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default

If a "Saison" or what turns out to be a hoppy sour, and lambic, I will pitch only the souring blend, and pitch very little. If a Flanders I will pitch yeast for a standardish ale type fermentation and add the souring blend at the same time in a reasonable pitch. Brewing sours isn't as much about population its about sugar profile if you ask me. The brett and bacteria cannot really compete at standard temps against sacch. so you need to provide a wort sugar profile that saves sugars for the souring and long haul of maturation.


__________________
Going through life is hard.
Going through life stupid is harder.
smokinghole is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 04:14 AM   #12
statseeker
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 476
Liked 15 Times on 13 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

So basically in essence a much higher mash or adjuncts that will be long term food for the bugs?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Home Brew mobile app


__________________
For new brewers, especially new all-grain brewers: Check out my blog The New Brewer Chronicals: brewerchronicals.blogspot.com
statseeker is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 11:58 AM   #13
stompbox
Served up in the backyard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
stompbox's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Surprise Valley, PA
Posts: 375
Liked 22 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I thought that is why you use unmalted wheat and or flaked wheat. No? I am new at sours too, but that was my understanding.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Home Brew mobile app
stompbox is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 09:38 PM   #14
smokinghole
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
smokinghole's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lucid Dream Land
Posts: 2,917
Liked 125 Times on 102 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default

Unmalted/flaked wheat will still convert in a mash it just depends on how you mash it.....its less about whats in the mash and more about how you treat the mash. Of course it matters whats in there but an unmalted grain is just there to provide complex starches instead of cleaved sugar molecules that are formed through a standard mash with the amylase enzymes. So if you don't give the unmalted grain a chance to fully convert because you are using a turbid mash, there will be long term carbohydrate for the yeast and bacteria to hydrolyse sugar molecules off the starch complexes.
__________________
Going through life is hard.
Going through life stupid is harder.
smokinghole is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 07:08 PM   #15
ChugachBrewing
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 532
Liked 168 Times on 86 Posts

Default

Back to the original question...
I started with a slant of ECY 20, added 1L of 1.040 wort, stir plate for 3 days, then pitched into a 50 gallon barrel. I would say that is "significant underpitching". So far (6 months in) it is tasting great. Not as strong as my authentic lambic, but its still good.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/50-...-bread-418234/
__________________
Check out my new blog brouwerijchuchach for information on fermenting beer, baking bread, pizza, and other experiments.

Don't like ads on the net? Make sure you have Adblock!
ChugachBrewing is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2014, 03:15 PM   #16
smokinghole
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
smokinghole's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lucid Dream Land
Posts: 2,917
Liked 125 Times on 102 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default

Ive found the same to be true with ecy20. Ive made beers with just lambic bottle yeasts and I like the flavor more than ecy20. Plus the lambic culture made the beer come out drier and more complex. You use pitch rates like me. *high five*
__________________
Going through life is hard.
Going through life stupid is harder.
smokinghole is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 12:40 AM   #17
wbuffness
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Spring Green, WI
Posts: 19
Likes Given: 13

Default

1. If I pitch ECY20 into a brown ale with no other yeast, what will it be? Saison? Sour brown?
2. If I use 1/2 the bottle of ECY20 without a starter and have a OG of 1.050 brown, will it ferment correctly?
3. Will it follow the same rules as regular yeast and be around a 5% beer?
wbuffness is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2014, 02:52 AM   #18
sweetcell
Swollen Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
sweetcell's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,634
Liked 822 Times on 603 Posts
Likes Given: 330

Default

1. i's say a sour brown. depending on the recipe, it could be a oud bruin (flanders brown). according to the BJCP, saisons aren't brown, use saison yeast (the sacch in ECY20 is either mostly or entirely non-saison) and generally aren't sour.
2. half a vial in 5 gallons? i have no experience with this, but seems pretty damn low. i believe that a full bottle per 5 gals is the recommended pitch rate, so you're looking to go half as much.
3. with the brett and other bugs in there, i'd expect it to go pretty low so you'll likely end up with something closer to 6%.
__________________
.
What hops should I grow? Looking for cheap honey?

Drinking: black harvest ale (wet-hopped with homegrown hops), witbier, hoppy saison, local sour cherry kriek, oud bruin, gueuz'ish thing, saison bottled with ECY34
Fermenting: IPA w/ HBC-438 (thanks vinnie!), 2x saison w/ 3726, Ardennes BDSA
Aging: witbier with brett, TYB saison brett blend, Tripel'ish with brett, sour cherry mead, rye sour ECY20/ECY34 split, several other sours, acerglyn, and probably some stuff i've lost track of...
sweetcell is offline
wbuffness Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2014, 03:11 AM   #19
smokinghole
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
smokinghole's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lucid Dream Land
Posts: 2,917
Liked 125 Times on 102 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default

1. I'd say it's a sour brown of sorts. If its amber you can stretch to say it's a saison in my book. Saisons are classified as they are now post pure culture techniques. They were surely aged long periods and sour just like lambics were. I can't imagine when they were very traditionally made by a farmer or a group of farmers that cleanliness was the best. BJCP is stupid to classify a beer with such a rich history into such a small box essentially being something that needs to emulate Dupont.

2. The pitch rate depends on what you're looking for. I've pitched miniscule amounts of yeast for beers and pitched proper amounts with souring cultures depending on what I was going for. If you're doing for something funkier and drier like a saison I'd say a half bottle or so will be plenty. It will get going and it can get going quick.

3. If a regular yeast would produce a beer with about 75% aa this will produce a beer with much more likely 90% and possibly more. So you will not end up with a 5% beer unless you go to great lengths to provide unfermentable sugars through heavy use of caramel malts and long boils to produce melanoidins and extensive kettle caramelization. Otherwise you will end up with a dry sour beer.
__________________
Going through life is hard.
Going through life stupid is harder.
smokinghole is offline
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2014, 02:45 PM   #20
FredTheNuke
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 786
Liked 84 Times on 68 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

I plan on pitching one bottle into 15 gallons. We will see what happens...


__________________
Sour Fermentations In Progress
FredTheNuke is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Very Wild Saison ECY20 smokinghole Lambic & Wild Brewing 67 06-03-2014 01:52 PM
Turbid mashed lambic and ECY20/01 smokinghole Lambic & Wild Brewing 17 04-01-2014 02:58 PM
Got some ECY20. Rys06Tbss Lambic & Wild Brewing 3 11-27-2013 02:20 AM
ECY20 Bug Country recipe ideas skeezerpleezer Lambic & Wild Brewing 31 03-28-2013 10:14 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS