bitterness threshold-when to say when - Home Brew Forums

Register Now!
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > bitterness threshold-when to say when

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-13-2007, 07:36 PM   #1
BrewDey
Recipes 
 
Mar 2007
Cincinnati
Posts: 456
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts



On a recent Pale, I thought I'd get crazy and add loads of Cascades in the last few minutes of the boil. I think that in all, I dumped in 4 oz. of pellets (don't have my notes on me, but pretty high AAU). This is in addition to the early additions of Simcoes and Centennials.

While I was hoping for an explosion of fruitiness, followed by a dry bitterness....I ended up with decent hop flavor, but an intense bitterness that really drowns out the floral and fruitiness. The late additions I just threw in, and didn't strain out...it was extract and I just dumped it all into the carboy, then topped it off with water. Could this affect it?

I know you live and you learn, it was a vast deviation from the recipe-so it's my bad. I just want to be able to get that flavor and the bitterness at the same time. Any guidlines you guys follow in terms of max IBUs? Any better methods for extracting the flavor?

 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 07:39 PM   #2
Evan!
 
Evan!'s Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2006
Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 11,863
Liked 87 Times on 72 Posts


If they were late additions, then they really would have had very little effect on your IBU's. The bitterness you're getting might be from leaving all that crap in the wort. I never do that...it might not be hop bitterness, but tannins, etc.? I'm probably way off base here, but in the future, you'd be good to filter or whirlpool.

The most likely culprit was the simcoe and centennial bittering additions.

I'd say lighten up on the bittering additions and go heavy on the late ones like you did...but filter/strain your wort. Then dry-hop. That'll add plenty of hop aroma.
__________________
MOSS HOLLOW BREWING CO.
Aristocratic Ales, Lascivious Lagers


.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)

 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 07:50 PM   #3
the_bird
10th-Level Beer Nerd
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
the_bird's Avatar
Recipes 
 
May 2006
Adams, MA
Posts: 20,883
Liked 523 Times on 420 Posts


Yeah, I'm doubtful it's the late additions, per se. My MITRB recipe has three ounces (Cascade, Centennial, Amarillo) added at 15 minutes, 2.25 ounces at 5, 0.75 ounces at flameout, and 1.5 ounces dryhop. And, there's still some bittering additions - but I scaled those back from where I would usually be. You need to be a hophead to like the beer, but it's really much, much more about the flavor than about the bitterness.
__________________
Come join Yankee Ingenuity!

"I'm kind of toasted. But I looked at my watch and it's only 6:30 so I can't stop drinking yet." - Yooper's Bob
"Brown eye finally recovered after the abuse it endured in Ptown last weekend, but it took almost a full week." - Paulie
"no, he just doesn't speak 'stupid'. i, however, am fluent...." - motobrewer
"... I'll go both ways." - Melana

 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 08:02 PM   #5
cheezydemon
Recipes 
 
Jun 2007
The "Ville"
Posts: 1,918
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts


Jamil has a recent article.......wait a minute! I got the link from one of your posts Ohio! Anyways it deals with late additions of hops adding bitterness and flavor. I am going to try it(see my sig).

4 oz at 5 minutes and all during cooling(probably not with an immersion chiller) I bet that would add bitterness!
__________________
BOTTLED: "Route 66 IPA" 7% ABV, "Dave's Imperial Stout" 12% ABV , "Spider Imperial Stout" 9%ABV , "Mutt Irish Ale" 7% ABV, "Sorta Sierra" IPA's 4.4% ABV, "Habanero Ales" 5.5% ABV, "Pumpkin Seed Ale" 5.5% ABV , "Marzen" Lager, "Step child Ale",
PRIMARies: "Caramel Amber" , "Black Porter"
SECONDARIES:1 :"Miller Ale"
On DECK: Another Russian Stout

 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 08:17 PM   #6
ohiobrewtus
 
ohiobrewtus's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Nov 2006
Ohio
Posts: 7,785
Liked 62 Times on 54 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezydemon
4 oz at 5 minutes and all during cooling(probably not with an immersion chiller) I bet that would add bitterness!
Not really. With large late additions like that you are contributing more to the flavor and aroma. Of course you are adding bitterness, but the amount of time that late additions are in the boil does not allow for sufficient isomerization of alpha acids to contribute anything more than subtle bitterness.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bird
Well, if you *love* it.... again, note that my A.S.S. has five pounds.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 08:35 PM   #7
Poindexter
 
Poindexter's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2007
interior Alaska
Posts: 1,195
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewDey
While I was hoping for an explosion of fruitiness, followed by a dry bitterness....I ended up with decent hop flavor, but an intense bitterness that really drowns out the floral and fruitiness. The late additions I just threw in, and didn't strain out...it was extract and I just dumped it all into the carboy, then topped it off with water. Could this affect it?
I am going to say yes, leaving the hops in the fermenter contributed overall bitterness. I have a one gallon test pilot of a bracket going, some DME and some honey with a tiny bit of early bittering hops, and then about half an ounce of dry hops (7.0% glacier) in the primary fermenter.

I was hoping for an explosion of fruitiness, but the stuff is just not drinkable, too bitter.

I _think_ for flavor and aroma you want to late kettle add and then strain on the way to the fermenter.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 08:48 PM   #8
BrewDey
Recipes 
 
Mar 2007
Cincinnati
Posts: 456
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Poindexter
I _think_ for flavor and aroma you want to late kettle add and then strain on the way to the fermenter.
Thanks for all the feedback-seems that leaving the hops themselves in there was the culprit-not the bittering additions. I had done a similar brew where I followed the same schedule, but had Cascade as an early addition and 1 or 2 oz. of Simcoes as the late addition. On this current one, I swapped the Cascades and the Simcoes and really amped up the volume of the late addition.

The previous one ended up fine-so I'm thinking it was the sheer amount of hop particles in the current one is what has made the difference. It's still not a terrible beer-but it's a tongue-scraper!

 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 08:50 PM   #9
TexLaw
Here's Lookin' Atcha!
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
TexLaw's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Sep 2007
Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,672
Liked 27 Times on 26 Posts


I don't know what a "few minutes" means here, but adding 4 oz of Cascades, even for just five minutes, most certainly will add significant bitterness to the beer. Depending on the rest of your recipe, you could add 15-20 IBUs that way. If you don't account for that, you could throw your balance far off.

How old is the beer, by the way? I usually find a harsh bitterness when I rack to the secondary or even to the keg, but the beer smooths out quite a bit after a couple more weeks or so of conditioning.

Leaving the hops in the wort shouldn't have any effect.


TL
__________________
Beer is good for anything from hot dogs to heartache.

Drinking Frog Brewery, est. 1993

 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 09:27 PM   #10
BrewDey
Recipes 
 
Mar 2007
Cincinnati
Posts: 456
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by TexLaw
IHow old is the beer, by the way? I usually find a harsh bitterness when I rack to the secondary or even to the keg, but the beer smooths out quite a bit after a couple more weeks or so of conditioning.
TL
It has been mellowing out a bit...it's been bottled for 5 weeks

 
Reply With Quote


Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hop Tea for Bitterness? fixie General Techniques 10 05-22-2013 05:14 AM
Human IBU Sensitivity Threshold? Pelikan General Beer Discussion 18 01-26-2011 05:52 PM
Bitterness Sharkeydude General Beer Discussion 2 07-02-2009 01:11 AM
Phosphoric Acid Taste Threshold Question Spine All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 2 02-22-2009 04:05 PM
What's the threshold regarding AG minimalism? Soulive All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 21 09-18-2008 05:58 PM


Forum Jump