Coldbreak Brewing Giveaway - Winners Drawn!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > Too much salts?
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-25-2013, 04:03 PM   #1
logdrum
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio
Posts: 834
Liked 45 Times on 40 Posts
Likes Given: 55

Default Too much salts?

I want to brew an American IPA & when I plug my ingredients into Bru'n Water for the Pale Ale profile tells me I'm shooting for:
132 ppm Calcium
17 ppm Magnesium
26 ppm Sodim
307 ppm Sulfate
56 ppm Chloride
99 ppm bicarbonate
82 ppm Alkalinity
398 Total Hardness
Is this way too much of a mineral content, or an accurate profile for a hoppy beer? Thanks.


logdrum is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2013, 04:21 PM   #2
ajdelange
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 7,598
Liked 998 Times on 792 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

For me that's way, way too much salt. For you it might not be. Once the basic requirements of chemistry that keep mash pH under control have been met then you are free to set salts to the levels that you think give you the best tasting beer. Your question is analogous to 'Is 1 tsp of salt the correct amount for my beef stew?'. pH control can be accomplished without salts or salts can be a part of it.

I assume you are asking the question because you think that this is a lot of salt. It is but the profiles in Bru'n water have been pretty carefully researched. This level of mineral may not give you the beer that you like best but the chances are pretty good that it will give you something pretty close. I often recommend that people start with low mineral levels and work up but you can start high and work down too. The important thing is that you do not accept the recommendations of any spreadsheet, calculator, book, article or recommendation seen here or on any other web site but continue to brew the beer while experimenting with mineral levels - just as you would 'correct the seasonings' in your stew.


ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2013, 04:36 PM   #3
jbaysurfer
Former future HOF Brewer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 2,945
Liked 579 Times on 423 Posts
Likes Given: 1011

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange View Post
For me that's way, way too much salt. For you it might not be. Once the basic requirements of chemistry that keep mash pH under control have been met then you are free to set salts to the levels that you think give you the best tasting beer. Your question is analogous to 'Is 1 tsp of salt the correct amount for my beef stew?'. pH control can be accomplished without salts or salts can be a part of it.

I assume you are asking the question because you think that this is a lot of salt. It is but the profiles in Bru'n water have been pretty carefully researched. This level of mineral may not give you the beer that you like best but the chances are pretty good that it will give you something pretty close. I often recommend that people start with low mineral levels and work up but you can start high and work down too. The important thing is that you do not accept the recommendations of any spreadsheet, calculator, book, article or recommendation seen here or on any other web site but continue to brew the beer while experimenting with mineral levels - just as you would 'correct the seasonings' in your stew.
I second this advice. When I started brewing with amended RO water I used exactly half of the additions calculated in Bru'n water. I eventually built up to using the full dose, but in some cases came up with profiles that were similar but that I like more. For instance, when I brew an IPA I find I don't need 300 PPMs of Sulfate and instead shoot for 150.

The Malty-Balanced-Bitter Yellow/Amber/Brown profiles are more useful for my purposes then the historical city profiles...as Martin says: "Although historic water profiles are accurate, it does not mean that the Brewers from those areas did not treat or alter their water to brew"

AJ, I have learned an awful lot thanks to your work in this area...thank you!
__________________
Batch counter: 117 batches (11/29/11-5/22/15).
jbaysurfer is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2013, 06:13 PM   #4
logdrum
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio
Posts: 834
Liked 45 Times on 40 Posts
Likes Given: 55

Default

Thanks for the replies. I do have an inkling that the levels are high. I've used the spreadsheet for at least a year with the malty/balanced/bitter profiles, but I've noticed lately that the beer seem a bit flaccid, hence the changed profile. I've got the mash pH under control (at least for my "repeat beers") so I'm contemplating upping the minerals. I had a Fat Heads Head Hunter IPA Saturday & really liked the crispness & depth of the hops-they're using the same water (cleveland city) as me, and I know Matt Cole has said he uses "a lot" of gypsum, so maybe I'll split the difference in my next batch.
logdrum is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2013, 07:45 PM   #5
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mabrungard's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 3,308
Liked 327 Times on 272 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

I use that 300 ppm sulfate profile all the time. It suits my tastes, but you may want to assess your tastes with a lesser version. Yes, Headhunter is an aggressively bittered and hopped beer. I expect that Matt does bring the sulfate level to a significant content. I'll be in Westlake at my in-laws for Thanksgiving this week and expect to run into Matt at the brewery. Maybe I'll have the opportunity to ask him what he does.

300 ppm is far from excessive. From my discussions with Colin Kaminski, excessive doesn't even start until 5 or 600 ppm sulfate...in his opinion!
__________________
Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brun-...?ref=bookmarks
mabrungard is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2013, 10:01 PM   #6
logdrum
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio
Posts: 834
Liked 45 Times on 40 Posts
Likes Given: 55

Default

Thanks Martin. Is that still an OK profile for a IIPA?
logdrum is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2013, 12:39 AM   #7
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mabrungard's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 3,308
Liked 327 Times on 272 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

It should be even more suited to an IIPA since providing a dry finish is imperative in one of those big beers.
__________________
Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brun-...?ref=bookmarks
mabrungard is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 07:16 PM   #8
logdrum
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio
Posts: 834
Liked 45 Times on 40 Posts
Likes Given: 55

Default

As a follow up, this IIPA came out fantastic! I was able to match the profile almost exactly-the hop depth is outstanding. Easily one of the best beers I've made. Thanks for the recommendation.
logdrum is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 12:59 AM   #9
logdrum
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Olmsted, Ohio
Posts: 834
Liked 45 Times on 40 Posts
Likes Given: 55

Default

And to further follow up: The rebrew of this IIPA (with the "Pale Ale Profile") scored a 44 in the Wizard of Saaz competition (no medal, tho) & won 1st place at "United We Brew" last month!

http://rimrockbrewersguild.blogspot.com/
logdrum is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 11:44 PM   #10
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mabrungard's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 3,308
Liked 327 Times on 272 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

Water only provides the support. The brewer still makes the beer great. Good job!


__________________
Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brun-...?ref=bookmarks
mabrungard is offline
jbaysurfer Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PH 5.2 + other salts Tiroux Brew Science 3 10-29-2012 11:32 PM
Burton Salts tmurph6 Brew Science 7 07-24-2011 10:33 AM
Where to add brewing salts Parkinson1963 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 8 06-15-2010 03:21 AM
Where do you buy salts from? hafmpty Brew Science 8 02-07-2010 07:40 PM
When and What pot should I add Salts? Mr. Mojo Rising Brew Science 4 12-23-2009 03:42 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS