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Old 11-09-2007, 03:09 PM   #11
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I've also run into over-hopped ESBs and over-hopped just about anything you can name. Cascade is the signature hop of the PNW and too many craft brew drinkers are convinced that without that nose, it isn't really craft beer. It's too easy for people to lock into one element of anything and that's what has happened with Cascades and IPAs. As noted, we will be smelling a lot less of it in the coming year. Maybe this will force hop heads to learn about other styles & hops, but I doubt it.

Nothing wrong with loving Cascades, but please leave the bitters, malty brews, etc. alone!

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Old 11-09-2007, 03:14 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by westerntrout
why are so many US brewers so fascinated with cascade (or similiar) hops? an ESB.... with overwhelming cascade aroma? WTH? every 6er i buy is a gamble that any subtlety will be negated by the unique grapefruitiness of cascade. not completely anti cascade, a top note with some willamette is nice, but really! next i expect to find a cascade version of a pilsener. i guess i can rightfully expect it in an APA but it seems like the only hop that some brewers have available. a cascade stout, you betcha!, how about a fine brown porter, lets break out the cascade! against all the laws of nature in a bitter. how about an octobercade? hmmm. tasty!

kinda poking a bit of fun but it does appear that there is a lack of imagination sometimes.
I almost started this exact thread a few weeks back, buttttt was a little worried about the flack I'd get.

Cascade is good, but over used. Stick it in an APA, but that's it.

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Old 11-09-2007, 04:28 PM   #13
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Even though I don't know much about ESB's, thought it might be useful to include part of the BJCP guidelines for ESB's (Style 8C):

Aroma: Hop aroma moderately-high to moderately-low, and can use
any variety of hops although UK hops are most traditional. Medium to
medium-high malt aroma, often with a low to moderately strong
caramel component (although this character will be more subtle in paler
versions). Medium-low to medium-high fruity esters. Generally no
diacetyl, although very low levels are allowed. May have light,
secondary notes of sulfur and/or alcohol in some examples (optional).

Flavor: Medium-high to medium bitterness with supporting malt
flavors evident. Normally has a moderately low to somewhat strong
caramelly malt sweetness. Hop flavor moderate to moderately high
(any variety, although earthy, resiny, and/or floral UK hops are most
traditional). Hop bitterness and flavor should be noticeable, but should
not totally dominate malt flavors. May have low levels of secondary
malt flavors (e.g., nutty, biscuity) adding complexity. Moderately-low
to high fruity esters. Optionally may have low amounts of alcohol, and
up to a moderate minerally/sulfury flavor. Medium-dry to dry finish
(particularly if sulfate water is used). Generally no diacetyl, although
very low levels are allowed.

Overall Impression: An average-strength to moderately-strong
English ale. The balance may be fairly even between malt and hops to
somewhat bitter. Drinkability is a critical component of the style;
emphasis is still on the bittering hop addition as opposed to the
aggressive middle and late hopping seen in American ales. A rather
broad style that allows for considerable interpretation by the brewer.

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Old 11-09-2007, 04:42 PM   #14
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Cascade works decently well in an American robust porter, but I'd stick to English hops for a brown porter.
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Old 11-09-2007, 04:54 PM   #15
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I threw in a “pinch” of cascade at flameout on my Boulevard Wheat clone and people (BMC drinkers included) went bonkers over this beer.

I think some cascade helps to “summer-ize” a beer that needs a little spark at the end. Nobody used the term “grapefruit” to describe the flavor. They just kept referring to it as “tasty” and “refreshing”.
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Old 11-09-2007, 04:56 PM   #16
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Cascade is alright, but far from my fav. hop.
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Old 11-09-2007, 05:02 PM   #17
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Why is anything popular or a fad, it just kind of is. Personally I am not a big fan of any of the American C hops.

As for Cascade, if I wanted grapefruit juice I would just buy grapefruit juice (try the oaked arrogant bastard and you'll know what I mean).
And now we go AG!

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Old 11-09-2007, 05:09 PM   #18
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I might brew an "American Bitter" at some point, maybe with the second runnings from the American Strong Ale I've started planning.

Actually, I think I'll call it an "American Biter"; I'll need a picture of Cheese's son for the label...
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:52 PM   #19
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And another thing. What is it about all those English beers using EKG or if they are daring Fuggles? Don't they know there are lots of other hops out there to use?

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Old 11-10-2007, 10:47 PM   #20
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Cascades are one of the higher yielding Hops

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