Only flame out addition - Home Brew Forums
Register Now For Free!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Beer Discussion > Only flame out addition

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-27-2013, 11:20 PM   #1
CBMbrewer
Recipes 
 
Nov 2011
, The south
Posts: 761
Liked 61 Times on 53 Posts



I have heard that a lot of commercial breweries only do a bittering addition at the beginning of the boil and than a flame out/whirlpool addition for a certain amount of time. Specifically I have seen it stated in many places that Stone only does an addition at 90mins and then a huge whirlpool addition. Clearly they get a huge amount of flavor and aroma with this method. The other day I came across this:
http://www.bear-flavored.com/2013/07...whirlpool.html
Basically the write up argues that boiling your flavor and aroma additions will waste some of the flavor and aroma you would get due to the acids being boiled off and isomerized in the boil and the best way to get as much flavor and aroma from your hops is the do a long hop stand at high but not boiling temperatures.
What is the validity of this idea?
__________________
Happiness is in the eye of the beer holder

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 11:26 PM   #2
drainbamage
Keep HBT weird.
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
drainbamage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2011
Alexandria, KY
Posts: 6,136
Liked 2617 Times on 1483 Posts


Try looking into hop-bursting as well. I haven't tried it yet since it's supposed to require a lot of hops added at the end to be effective, but it is supposed to be very good at imparting those super-fresh hop aromas that Stone achieves so often.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 11:58 PM   #3
JJL
 
JJL's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Feb 2010
, WI
Posts: 1,287
Liked 30 Times on 23 Posts


You should check out the latest addition of Zymurgy. It has an article specifically about this technique.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 12:12 AM   #4
kesslerr1
Recipes 
 
Dec 2009
Raleigh N.C., North Carolina
Posts: 57
Liked 6 Times on 4 Posts


Thats a good question I sure someone knows. Personally I have been playing with doing no 60 min or flavor hops and instead using first wort for flavor and bittering then doing a flame out addition. So far it has turned out great.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 12:27 AM   #5
CBMbrewer
Recipes 
 
Nov 2011
, The south
Posts: 761
Liked 61 Times on 53 Posts


Quote:
Try looking into hop-bursting as well. I haven't tried it yet since it's supposed to require a lot of hops added at the end to be effective, but it is supposed to be very good at imparting those super-fresh hop aromas that Stone achieves so often.
I have hop bursted a few times before and have been very pleased with the results. The idea behind this is getting most of your ibus from the additions in the last 10 to 15 minutes. The idea with only doing a addition at the beginning and end of the boil, as i understand it, is to get your ibu's were you want them to be from that first bittering addition then *only flavor and aroma from the flame out addition and getting negligible ibus from them due to not boiling.

Quote:
You should check out the latest addition of Zymurgy. It has an article specifically about this technique.
Definitely need to! Any place online I can read it, or at least that one article for free?


I guess my real question is: what is the difference between adding all of your flavor/aroma hops right as you cut off the flame or boiling them for those last 10 minutes or so, other then the obvious ibu's you would get from boiling them?
__________________
Happiness is in the eye of the beer holder

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 12:28 AM   #6
duboman
Recipes 
 
Jul 2011
Glenview, IL
Posts: 6,368
Liked 508 Times on 470 Posts


Basically the idea is that you have one bitter addition to achieve the IBU levels you want and then concentrate all the flavor and aroma at the end of the boil, 15 minutes to flame out in large amounts

The longer the hops boil the more of the flavor and aroma compound break down and are essentially rendered useless or less than what you want. Some flavor/aroma hops don't even provide a good pleasant bitter addition

The book "Hops" is a great resource for your brewing library
__________________
Nothing Left to do but smile and drink beer.....

The Commune Brewing Company-Perfecting the "art" of beer since 2010

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 12:47 AM   #7
CBMbrewer
Recipes 
 
Nov 2011
, The south
Posts: 761
Liked 61 Times on 53 Posts


Quote:
Basically the idea is that you have one bitter addition to achieve the IBU levels you want and then concentrate all the flavor and aroma at the end of the boil, 15 minutes to flame out in large amounts

The longer the hops boil the more of the flavor and aroma compound break down and are essentially rendered useless or less than what you want. Some flavor/aroma hops don't even provide a good pleasant bitter addition

The book "Hops" is a great resource for your brewing library
Right. I have done hop bursting before and loved it. I'm just trying to understand the difference between hop bursting and adding all of your late additions at flameout. If the longer the hops are boiled, the more flavor/aroma compounds are lost, why not add all the late additions after the boil for a long, hot hopstand?
__________________
Happiness is in the eye of the beer holder

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 12:54 AM   #8
drainbamage
Keep HBT weird.
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
drainbamage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2011
Alexandria, KY
Posts: 6,136
Liked 2617 Times on 1483 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by CBMbrewer
Right. I have done hop bursting before and loved it. I'm just trying to understand the difference between hop bursting and adding all of your late additions at flameout. If the longer the hops are boiled, the more flavor/aroma compounds are lost, why not add all the late additions after the boil for a long, hot hopstand?
Flavor compounds mostly come out around the 20-30 minute mark of the boil. I don't know how much you'd get by adding everything at flameout.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 01:00 AM   #9
CBMbrewer
Recipes 
 
Nov 2011
, The south
Posts: 761
Liked 61 Times on 53 Posts


Quote:
Flavor compounds mostly come out around the 20-30 minute mark of the boil. I don't know how much you'd get by adding everything at flameout.
Okay. So there is validity to the labels "flavor addition" and "aroma addition". A 10 min boil will give you more aroma then flavor whereas a 20 min boil will give you more flavor then aroma?
__________________
Happiness is in the eye of the beer holder

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 01:10 AM   #10
drainbamage
Keep HBT weird.
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
drainbamage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2011
Alexandria, KY
Posts: 6,136
Liked 2617 Times on 1483 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by CBMbrewer
Okay. So there is validity to the labels "flavor addition" and "aroma addition". A 10 min boil will give you more aroma then flavor whereas a 20 min boil will give you more flavor then aroma?
That's my understanding of it, hence why you don't get flavor out of dry-hopping additions.

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LME addition at flame out, your thoughts appricated CBXBob Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 18 09-23-2014 09:13 PM
60min hop addition, add all dme at flame out. Brewmex41 Extract Brewing 3 08-12-2013 07:23 AM
Hop addition at flame out quick question jesseroberge General Beer Discussion 6 07-31-2013 11:34 PM
Hop addition at flame-out golphur Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 7 08-30-2011 08:02 PM
flame out hop addition question NorJerseyHomebro Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 6 07-17-2010 09:45 PM


Forum Jump