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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Lambic & Wild Brewing > Lacto Usage in Secondary
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:26 PM   #1
gometz
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Default Lacto Usage in Secondary

I am playing with the idea of splitting a batch of Kolsch and souring one half (bottling the other). Now the idea would be to introduce the lacto bacteria in secondary and let it sit for a few months.

My questions are:
1. Is this a good idea?
2. How long does carbing take after souring?
3. The schedule. This is the one I am most worried about. If I brew up the main batch in November and start souring late November, could I bottle the beer in April to have it ready by late May?*

*The idea behind the schedule is to have it ready for my father's 60th. He is from Cologne, so I plan on making 10 gallons of Kolsch for his party (maybe dry-hop one of the carboys too) and figure I need to make at least one test batch to make sure my recipe is good (this test recipe would be split for the souring).

The other idea is this: split the batch and toss 1 qt of soured mash (pasteurized after souring for a week) into the 2.5 gal and let that rest for a few months before bottling.

Any ideas ye masters of funk out there?


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Old 10-15-2013, 03:50 PM   #2
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I would think that there would be nothing for the lacto to eat. Maybe an addition of lactose would be needed. I couldn't begin to tell you how much though.


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Old 10-15-2013, 04:50 PM   #3
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Oh I was under the impression that lacto could digest sugars that sacc couldn't.

So maybe my second idea is a better one: to combine a highly soured un-hopped, pasteurized quart to 2.5 gallons of finished Kolsch, and then let it sit for some time to mellow?

I have lots of questions about lacto fermentation: temperature, oxygen, etc. and am having trouble finding answers.

I want to try and get something like Das Wunderkind from Jester King.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:17 PM   #4
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Lacto doesn't like hops or alcohol. So by adding it after fermentation it is going to be slow if it works at all. We are talking about a couple of years to get anything decently sour.

I don't know that there will not be anything for the lacto to work on. I think it would go at some of the sugars, but it can be particular with the sugars it will convert.

If you don't want the smell or mess with a sour mash, just add the Lacto to the wort, and leave it a week before adding any yeast. The wort will need to be very low in hops.

The problem with mixing sour with regular beer is that you dilute the sourness.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:02 AM   #5
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I am not looking for a lot of sourness, just a nice little tinge. I think I am going a bit nuts with ideas and I am not sure if they will work.

If I end up doing a sour, I think it will be with the 0.5-1 gal lacto added to 3 gal of finished Kolsch. Then leave that for 4-5 months to mature.

Of course I could also just finish it with Brett instead. The FG should be around 1.010, so maybe I would get a little sour flavor from that as well.

Part of the idea is that I want to test out a Kolsch recipe, but don't necessarily want 5 gallons. The remaining 2-3 gallons I want to do some sort of experiment with and it seems like an interesting idea to using some bugs or brett.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:13 AM   #6
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Basically here is my crazy new idea:

1. Brew up 5 gallons of Kolsch (OG ~1.045, FG ~1.012, 20-25 IBU)
2. Ferment and finish the Kolsch (including cold lagering)
3. A week before the Kolsch is done make a 0.5-1 gal lacto batch (OG ~1.035 no hops), keep warm during fermentation to increase sourness
4. Day Kolsch is done pasteurize the lacto wort (maybe even do a hop stand to get some more hop aroma into; thinking Nelson Sauvin)
5. Pull off 2 gallons of the Kolsch and bottle it
6. Add the pasteurized lacto wort into the remaining Kolsch
7.a. Allow to mature for a few months at a low temperature
7.b. Add Brett and ferment low, allow to mature for a few months
8. Bottle (carb using corn sugar)

Step 7 is just to think about the options. I was thinking a Kolsch would be a good place to test out some souring because it is very neutral and clean. This would allow some tartness and sourness to shine through.

Other ideas include using a lacto, pedio and brett mix in the sour gallon.

So am I crazy? Am I wasting everyone's time?
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Old 10-17-2013, 05:07 PM   #7
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Pull the three gallons then add dregs from some commercial sours. I like using jolly pumpkin dregs. The brett and pedio in there will allow the beer to super attenuate and add add funkiness along the way.


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