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Old 09-18-2013, 09:39 PM   #1
Glock
 
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Sep 2013
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Hello All,
Been stalking this forum for nearly 3 years since I began brewing and it's been a great help. I now need to make my first post.

Iím almost done creating a 2-tier system with one pump, a RIMS tube, and BK operated by propane. However I need help creating the brain. I got a ton of information from the numerous wiring diagrams and thought I had mine nailed down but got stumped on the light-up push button switches I decided to purchase

Basically I'm trying to have one switch allow power to the rest of the elements in the panel. The RIMS tube will be used to maintain mash temp and I have a single pump that I'll need to run independently for transfer. I added a switch for the PID just because. Iím mostly getting confused on the neutral returns to the lights. But I have many other questions that will put my mind at ease if I did it correctly.

So my question is if my wiring diagram is correct?
Am I using the right kind of switches?
Will the Main Power Switch illuminate once closed without any other switch closed?
Does PID wiring look correct to power the RIMS tube outlet element on/off when needed?
Are fuses in right spot/right kind?
Will E-Stop trip GFCI?
Any other glaring problems with the diagram?

I hope I explained what Iím trying to do well enough. Thanks for the help.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:59 PM   #2
P-J
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I'd like to help but - sorry - the diagram is way to small to be able to read it.

P-J

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Old 09-20-2013, 05:23 AM   #3
atoughram
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It's a little small, but I get the point - 120Vac RIMS heater? It works for me I guess.

You're utilizing your GFCI as an E-Stop? I suppose that would work but that's not how I'd do it - I'd cut the control power to the pump and the PID or between the PID and SSR. They also make these cool shunt operated circuit breakers that would disconnect when they loose power - I'd do something like that instead of tripping the GFCI. (My e-stop is to unplug the whole unit...)

The switch to cycle power on the PID controller is overkill in my opinion - your opinion may vary...

I've got one of these on mine - which is a similar system to yours and really like it. It shows the status of your element in amps - mine runs about 12.4 amps while its on - if it get a lot less or more, I'll replace the element.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Blue...item35c78e79c5

I'm using an Omron E5CS PID controller - so I'm unsure if your wiring is correct there.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:47 PM   #4
Glock
 
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@ atoughram, Thanks for your reply. You're right the PID switch is overkill, I was thinking I might as well have it since I'm already spending enough money on the other switches that what would be one more. My cheapness set in though and you talked me out of that part of it. I thank you. The E-Stop is there just because if something does happen and I can't get to whatever switch and someone else can, then they can just trip the outlet by hitting one button. Doubt it would ever be needed. I seen that E-brewery used a shunt in their panel but I figured something this small wouldn't need one. I like the amp reader idea, but I think that may have to be a future upgrade. I'll have this on a dedicated breaker/circuit, so hopefully my draw isn't over 80%, nor should it be. Thanks again for your reply.

 
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:10 PM   #5
Glock
 
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@ P-J, I was hoping you would see my post, I've been studying your diagrams for a while and they are a huge help. That's what I used as reference for mine, however I don't know why the size got so shrunking down after posting it. Sorry about that. The reason I posted the diagram was because I couldn't find any of yours that would work for my system, but wouldn't you know it I found one on here yesterday. (seriously I furiously searched for one for my application) Too funny. Anyway...

This is the exact one I'm going with

http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/imag...asic5-RIMS.jpg

Except I'll be using a SYL-2362 and my heating element is a LWD [email protected], obviously wired for 110.

I like that the RIMS tube won't run unless the pump is on, but can be run independently, which I need. And also the light on the element telling you when it is on is cool and telling about how much heat is being lost in the mash tun and so forth.

I do have a couple of questions about it though.

Why do the switches have to be 2NO? I was going to go with 1NO 1NC, but seen you had this diagram using the 2NO.

Also can I use 12 gauge wire for everything? Including the PID/SSR control?

I was also planning on using this type of box to house eveything http://www.menards.com/main/electric...845-c-6429.htm

Do you see any problems there? Like maybe not being deep enough.

P-J thanks so much for your help on these forums, your work and time are greatly appreciated.

I can't wait to get me rig up and running with the pump and tube. I've used it in analog mode and keep telling myself more automation will be better, and I sure hope it is. I'll be sure to post pictures and hopefully explain what I made to help out any so called noobs. I was one and hopefully I'm far enough along in my brewing that I can help out others.

Thanks again!

 
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Old 09-20-2013, 05:36 PM   #6
atoughram
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12ga wire on the power wiring for the element is a good idea. 14ga or less for the pump would be OK, my pump only draws 1.2 amps. 10X10X4 box should work fine, mine is a 10X10X5 and it has plenty of room.

You don't need the two N.O. contacts on the switch, on 120V circuits you shouldn't have to break the neutral, just the hot wire. (120V Neutral is tied to the ground bus in your breaker panel). On 240V circuits both the black and white wires are hot so its a good idea to switch both, whereas in 120V circuits only the black wire is hot. You could use the other N.O. contact on the pump switch to open the SSR control circuit, shutting off the elements whenever the pump isn't running and wire the neural around the switch.
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On tap - SAMM I am IPA 1.069

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Old 09-20-2013, 06:25 PM   #7
Glock
 
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That makes sense with the 2NO switches, I wasn't thinking 240V 2 hots since I'm going 120V to start. I think I'll go with the 2NO incase of a future upgrade to 240V. Time to get over to auber to get my order in. It's so nice that this is the last (major) purchase for this system.

I was just asking about the 12ga wire since that's how I'll be bringing the power in and thought might as well use it to wire up everyone else. I thought you could go as low as 22ga running to control on the SSR, but figured if I have 12ga, then why not use 12 ga. Thought I'd put that question out there incase there was some reason against using 12ga for control.

Here's another question. I haven't found one of these and don't even know if they make them. But do they make a 3-prong cord that looks more like a dryer plug? One that would have hot, neutral, and ground? I know I don't need one since a regular 120v can be used, but thought it would be neat to have. Also that way you can't plug the element and pump into the wrong spots in the panel, which is going to be removable from my rig.

Thanks again for the help

 
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:34 PM   #8
P-J
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Dryer Outlet: Leviton 30 Amp 2-Pole Flush-Mount Single Outlet-Black

Is that what you are looking for?

 
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:34 PM   #9
atoughram
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you could use a 120V 20a plug on the element like this


and make sure that the outlet for the pump is only a 15a unit like this
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Planning - Something Sinister
Fermenters - Carbon River Hefeweizen OG 1.052
On tap - SAMM I am IPA 1.069

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Old 09-20-2013, 06:50 PM   #10
Glock
 
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Nice! I was looking for more of the dryer type plug, but it's a great call on the straight blade plug for the element and 15amp plug for the pump. I think that it will look a lot cleaner to in the panel. That's exactly what I'm going to do. Thanks again

 
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