It was raining and I was bored...HELP!!

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boatcapt

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Well, boredom, the internet and a very little bit brewing knowledge (along with a few IPAs) caught up with me this weekend and with the encouragement of some "friends," I decided to make a hard cider. Woke up the next morning and realized I was outside of my limited brewing element so I'm turning to the experts.

Here is what I "found" sitting in my "beer cellar" (closet in the spare bedroom) when I woke up Sunday:

One gallon of Martinelli's unfiltered apple juice (no concentrate, sweetener or preservatives).
One cup of brown sugar.
Danstar American West Coast BRY-97 cleaned from by last IPA.
Balloon with a pin hole as an "air lock."
Temp is 70 degrees.

My foggy memory is that I'm good on all the sanitation issues.

This concoction has been bubbling fairly well for the last three days.

My plan (yea...let's call it a plan...that sounds like I have a clue what I'm doing!!) is to leave in the primary for two weeks then rack to a secondary for another two (will add one cinnamon stick). Rack again and prime with a cup of brown sugar, bottle and condition for a week. I'll finish by doing a stove top pasteurization per the instructions on this site.

Soooo...Do I have a chance at producing something that is going to be palatable?

Am I missing any critical steps?

Will I be creating 12 or so bottle bombs that will blow holes in my roof the second I start to pasteurize?

Should I pitch the whole thing and go back to the "safety" of beer brewing??!!
 
Go buy an actual air lock. After its done fermenting, the balloon will let in air, that will oxidize the cider and make the batch bad. Or right when it stops bubbling, bottle it.
 
Go buy an actual air lock. After its done fermenting, the balloon will let in air, that will oxidize the cider and make the batch bad. Or right when it stops bubbling, bottle it.
Thanks Randzor. I've got airlocks but I don't have a stopper that is the right size. Would I be relatively safe to pull a switch while the cider was still off gassing? The balloon is taught so it is putting off gas.

All...Do my time estimates (2 wk primary, 2 wk secondary, 1 week bottle condition, pasturize) look OK?

Knowing myself, I'll probably crack open the first bottle right after it chills after pasturization. I would imagine it will taste rough at best at that point. How long should I age the other bottles before I should expect a reasonably product (four weeks, four months...four YEARS...)?
 
One gallon of Martinelli's unfiltered apple juice
...
prime with a cup of brown sugar
...
Will I be creating 12 or so bottle bombs?

Yes that's WAY too much priming sugar for one gallon. Use the following calculator which has brown sugar listed as one of the priming agents: http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/

Depending on how much co2 you're looking to impart, you should be in the 1/2 ounce to 1 ounce range.
 
Hahaha! Been there, done that. I was left to my own devices one Friday night (a questionable decision on my girlfriend's part), and a 12 pack of Yuengling later...brewing sounded like a pretty good idea. It was 3 am before everything was done, and after waking up, I could only half recall the nights events - though I was still pretty sure that my sanitation was done correctly. The moral of the story? It was the BEST beer I've brewed so far!

I also just switch my 1st batch of cider over to the secondary it was still fermenting, but the ABV was 5.25%, so I'm happy stopping it there. I know they take a while to mature in the bottle, but I have no intentions of waiting anywhere NEAR that long. I'm not sure what you mean by "pull the switch." If you're referring to taking off the balloon and adding a stopper, then you're perfectly fine. Just do it quickly, and make sure everything is sanitized, of course.

Also, I wouldn't worry about pasteurizing it AFTER you've made alcohol. Pasteurizing is something you would do to the apple juice/cider BEFORE fermentation. I didn't pasteurize mine, and I'm quite happy with it...but then again, I used apple juice, not fresh apple cider like I would have liked.
 
Ok, come on now lets be honest. Who hasn't had the late night "experimental" batch? That's my main reason for starting home brewing. Sounds to me like you have a pretty good plan, except I would definitely cut down on the priming sugar, and try to get an airlock that fits. I have been wishing for years I could recreate a brown ale we made in college. 4 guys... you would think at least 1 of us would have a recollection!:drunk:
 
My plan (yea...let's call it a plan...that sounds like I have a clue what I'm doing!!) is to leave in the primary for two weeks then rack to a secondary for another two (will add one cinnamon stick). Rack again and prime with a cup of brown sugar, bottle and condition for a week. I'll finish by doing a stove top pasteurization per the instructions on this site.

With that much brown sugar added for "priming" (and to make a sweet hard cider, obviously), I think a week prior to pasteurizing may be long enough to make them all bottle bombs. I'm still VERY new at this, but I don't think I'd let it go past four days at the most. And even then, I'd be careful while the bottles are heating. Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in on timing that.

To MrPhillips: Pasteurizing after bottling will kill the yeast and allow some of the "priming" sugar to remain sugar in the final product, which will make it (in my opinion) dramatically more drinkable than dry ciders.
 
Ooops! I was only thinking of pasteurizing to kill WILD yeast, not stop fermentation all together. I never thought about adding sugar to sweeten the cider (seems obvious, but I didn't think it was possible as long as there was yeast still in solution). Think I might do that with my batch. Thanks for the correction!
 
Yes that's WAY too much priming sugar for one gallon. Use the following calculator which has brown sugar listed as one of the priming agents: http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/

Depending on how much co2 you're looking to impart, you should be in the 1/2 ounce to 1 ounce range.
Jeez louise BeerGrylls (nice handle by the way!), you're trying to kill me by making me figure out how much CO2 I want as a final product! What would be the upper end of normal? I don't want it still. I want it to hold a little head (pun intended) after pouring but not too much.

Would four CO2's be too much? I didn't go to math school but the worldwideinterweb says that would be about 3.5 tablespoons (.22 cups).
 
Jeez louise BeerGrylls (nice handle by the way!), you're trying to kill me by making me figure out how much CO2 I want as a final product! What would be the upper end of normal? I don't want it still. I want it to hold a little head (pun intended) after pouring but not too much.

Would four CO2's be too much? I didn't go to math school but the worldwideinterweb says that would be about 3.5 tablespoons (.22 cups).

Haha awesome. Yeah I just didn't want to be an accomplice in a 12 pack of Apple grenades :) The honest truth us that I've never made carbonated cider, but i think if you start getting up that high it well be more like soda.
 
boatcapt said:
Thanks Randzor. I've got airlocks but I don't have a stopper that is the right size. Would I be relatively safe to pull a switch while the cider was still off gassing? The balloon is taught so it is putting off gas.

All...Do my time estimates (2 wk primary, 2 wk secondary, 1 week bottle condition, pasturize) look OK?

Knowing myself, I'll probably crack open the first bottle right after it chills after pasturization. I would imagine it will taste rough at best at that point. How long should I age the other bottles before I should expect a reasonably product (four weeks, four months...four YEARS...)?


I'm making my third batch right now and I've found it can be ready in a week. My last batch sat in primary for five days. It was still bubbling but it was already upwards of 5%ABV so I bottled. Because it was still carbing there is no need to add priming sugar, just let the reaction continue. I took two small (250 ml) plastic bottles with screw caps and filled them with cider as well. They are the control bottles. When they are good and firm, about the same as a store bought soda then it's time to pasteurize. I just put the bottles in the dishwasher and run the sanitation cycle. It's hot enough to kill the yeast and stop fermentation so you don't get bottle bombs. Let them cool to room temp then refrigerate. I was drinking them a few days later and they were delicious. No need to wait forever although it might be worth setting some aside to see if they get noticeably better.

I think if you did a full 2 week primary, then another 2 week secondary the ABV would be so high it wouldn't taste good anymore and you could end up with vinegar in the extreme case. I don't bother with a secondary since cider is usually cloudy anyway.
 
boatcapt said:
Thanks Randzor. I've got airlocks but I don't have a stopper that is the right size. Would I be relatively safe to pull a switch while the cider was still off gassing? The balloon is taught so it is putting off gas.

All...Do my time estimates (2 wk primary, 2 wk secondary, 1 week bottle condition, pasturize) look OK?

Knowing myself, I'll probably crack open the first bottle right after it chills after pasturization. I would imagine it will taste rough at best at that point. How long should I age the other bottles before I should expect a reasonably product (four weeks, four months...four YEARS...)?


I'm on my third batch of cider for the season right now. I think your fermentation schedule is pretty long. My last batch sat in primary for five days then I bottled. It came out around 6% ABV. I don't bother with a secondary since cider is cloudy anyway. I bottle after five full days in primary and when I do I fill a few small plastic bottles with screw caps as well to use as references to know when to pasteurize. When they are good and firm, about like a store bought soda then it's time to pasteurize. I crack open one of the plastic bottles just to be sure. If its what I want I put all the bottles in the dishwasher and run the sanitation cycle. It's hot enough to kill the yeast and stop fermentation. Let them cool to room temp then refrigerate. I was drinking them after a few days, and they were delicious. no need to wait months but I might set some aside next time to see if they get noticeably better.

If you bottle while the yeast is still working there is no need to add priming sugar, just let the yeast keep working and try the plastic bottle tip to avoid popping open all your cider to check carbonation. The last batch I pasteurized after about 29 hours but I've heard of some being ready after a few hours so just watch them.
 
boatcapt said:
Jeez louise BeerGrylls (nice handle by the way!), you're trying to kill me by making me figure out how much CO2 I want as a final product! What would be the upper end of normal? I don't want it still. I want it to hold a little head (pun intended) after pouring but not too much.

Would four CO2's be too much? I didn't go to math school but the worldwideinterweb says that would be about 3.5 tablespoons (.22 cups).

You won't get much head retention with cider. Carbonation can be anything from a tickle to very fizzy like ginger ale. But bottling 4 volumes might be more than the bottle will hold. I think 3 is the limit for safety? Especially if you're going to pasteurize.

I would go for 2.5 volumes for the middle of the road.

Other than that, it should be fine. You might want to sweeten it with brown sugar a little at a time until it tastes right, then bottle, then pasteurize.

The plastic test bottle is the best way to know when it's ready to pasteurize.

Cider is much simpler to make than beer, but much more difficult to make it taste good!
 
Great ideas all. I like the "Dishwasher Pasteurizer" and the "Coke bottle pressure test." I'll be using both!

Been in the primary for six days now and the bubbling is starting to slow. It's still there but much diminished from a few days ago. It is still just as cloudy as the day I put it into the fermenter. Shouldn't it start to clear a little in the primary? Will it clear up when I rack it to the secondary? I'm OK with it if it doesn't or isn't supposed to but I don't want to be waiting for visual indications if none are going to happen.
 
At room temp your cider will take a month or two to clear. I also like the dishwasher method...sounds easier than heating all the bottles in a large canning pot. You cider will clear much faster in the fridge. I wouldn't be too concerned about the airlock unless you are doing extended aging in the fermenter. Once fermentation slows, you could cover the balloon with foil, or remove the balloon and seal with several layers of saran wrap and foil for a week or two no problem.
 
Just short of two weeks and into the secondary. Fermentation had slowed WAY down (almost nothing) for a couple of days so I racked it.

Can I "rinse" the yeast and reuse as I have with beer or is this not done with cider?
 
No clue bro, I've never heard of that. What do you mean rinse the yeast? I know you can just put new stuff on your old yeast cake and use it but I've never heard of rinsing it, can you explain that for me? I'm curious.
 
Try using honey instead of brown sugar - some of the honey notes persist after fermentation and add complexity to the cider.
 
No clue bro, I've never heard of that. What do you mean rinse the yeast? I know you can just put new stuff on your old yeast cake and use it but I've never heard of rinsing it, can you explain that for me? I'm curious.
I've done it a couple of times with beer. Take your trub, mix with boiled and cooled water, sit in fridge for an hour or so until the yeast settles out, poor off most of the cloudy water, repeat the process several times and what you end up with is a pretty good amount of pure yeast for your next batch.

I know, dry yeast is cheap and easy to obtain but FREE is even cheeper. Also if you have harvested a not readily available type from your bottle conditioned local micro, it is nice to be able to continue using the strain.
 

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