National Homebrew Day Giveaway - Enter Now - Weekend Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Lambic & Wild Brewing > Lambic Primary vs Secondary Question
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-01-2013, 08:32 PM   #11
theQ
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
Posts: 301
Liked 3 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 81

Default

before I pitch in the fruts should I taste the beer. What if tastes like vinegar, should I still put in the fruits ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post
Sorry ...... I meant to say lactic acid. I was just trying to explain to Q why a sour takes a long time and will continue to change over a couple of years.

You really don't want much acetic acid (vinegar), but want more of the softer lactic acid. Acetic acid is mainly produced by acetobacteria in the presence of O2, while lactic acid is the product of Lacto and pedio working on the sugars.

I disagree with the statement that Lacto acts quickly. It does if there is no alcohol or hops, but in the presence of both of those, it can be very slow.
theQ is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 04:54 PM   #12
Johnnyhitch1
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 34 reviews
 
Johnnyhitch1's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SiX-ThReE-OnE, NY
Posts: 2,115
Liked 234 Times on 196 Posts
Likes Given: 3478

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theQ View Post
I did a 5 gallon lambic in July and it's sitting in primary since then.

I scaled this recipe I got on my previous post to this forum

3.5 lbs pilsner malt
2 lbs unmalted wheat
mash 150* for 60'
.5 oz herzbrucker hops at 60'
chill and pitch lambic blend.

More here: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/newbie-411915/

While I understand why the secondary needs to take 5-6 months to ferment the fruits, what's the benefit of having a long primary for a lambic ? I tend to approach this logically but the conclusion is not working for me.

Thanks!
Q
Did you pitch the fruit with the yeast at day 1?

Lambics are tradionaly kept on the cake thruout primary wheras flanders styles are racked to secondarys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post
I disagree with the statement that Lacto acts quickly. It does if there is no alcohol or hops, but in the presence of both of those, it can be very slow.
There are multiple known strains of lacto, while most cannot there are a couple that can ferment in high alcohol/IBU solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by theQ View Post
before I pitch in the fruts should I taste the beer. What if tastes like vinegar, should I still put in the fruits ?
If it tastes like vinegar unfortunetly, acetobactor has teken over and it will not be salvagable. It does make GREAT salad dressign though!!
__________________
^~~ "Like" it, Ill Give you beer ~~^
(({Brewing for the Movement Within}))

Primary:DUST
Kegged:AIR
BOTTLES:

Beer: NZ Brett (BD:9/16/12)
Mead: Blueberry-lemon, Raspberry-Lime, Habenero, POM, Traditional.
Johnnyhitch1 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 11:32 PM   #13
Calder
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6,541
Liked 387 Times on 345 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theQ View Post
before I pitch in the fruts should I taste the beer. What if tastes like vinegar, should I still put in the fruits ?
Every time I do anything with any beer I take a gravity sample, and drink the sample. I normally use a turkey baster to get the sample. That way I know what is going on.

If it tastes like vinegar, it is gone.
Calder is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2013, 04:30 PM   #14
theQ
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
Posts: 301
Liked 3 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 81

Default

I didn't pitch the fruits yet. I will do that in 1-2 months! Do I move it to the secondary or just pitch the fruits into the primary. I did point I don't see a reason to rake into secondary since it pretty clear ?

I always taste my beers when transferring it to secondary or to the keg/bottles so this won't be an exception.
theQ is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 10:26 PM   #15
theQ
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
Posts: 301
Liked 3 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 81

Default

So I've tasted it. First impression was vinegar but after sampling it hmm it's sour with just a hint if vinegar.

I am adding the fruits, will this ferment again ? Aggressively, I have a 6.5galon, so I won't move it ?

I use different wine thief, I thought I heard these bugs are pretty mean and could infect the equipment, anyone cares to expand that thought ?

Thanks!
Q
theQ is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2014, 12:34 AM   #16
Calder
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6,541
Liked 387 Times on 345 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theQ View Post
So I've tasted it. First impression was vinegar but after sampling it hmm it's sour with just a hint if vinegar.

I am adding the fruits, will this ferment again ? Aggressively, I have a 6.5galon, so I won't move it ?

I use different wine thief, I thought I heard these bugs are pretty mean and could infect the equipment, anyone cares to expand that thought ?
Many, many years ago, when I first started brewing, l remember having a couple of batches that had 'just a hint of vinegar'. I bottled them thinking they would be ok .......... well, after a few of them, I realized I was just kidding myself. They were awful, and I ended up tossing the rest. These were not sours, just pale ales.

You might want to re-think about investing additional time and money into this. That vinegar flavor is not going to go away no matter what you do to the beer and it could be undrinkable. You might be better off just bottling what you have and start again.
Calder is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2014, 05:34 AM   #17
monkeybox
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 134
Liked 19 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 44

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post
Many, many years ago, when I first started brewing, l remember having a couple of batches that had 'just a hint of vinegar'. I bottled them thinking they would be ok .......... well, after a few of them, I realized I was just kidding myself. They were awful, and I ended up tossing the rest.
I've taken the stance that one should never give up on beer. If your batch tastes bad, follow the process:
* Step 1: Chill the bottle for 48 hours.
* Step 2: Pour and taste.
* Step 3: If it still tastes bad, let it sit in the cellar for 30 more days.
* Step 4: Repeat until either (a) the beer tastes good, or (b) it's all gone.

Quote:
You might want to re-think about investing additional time and money into this.
Oh, but I do agree with this. Don't throw more money at it.
monkeybox is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2014, 01:49 PM   #18
jrfehon
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jrfehon's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Wyndmoor, PA
Posts: 218
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 43

Default

What are you using as your fermenter? For aging sours you shouldn't use plastic buckets, they let too much oxygen in which will create that vinegar taste. However, I bottled a Flemish red a few months ago and it has a hint of vinegar in the flavor profile, which I really like.
jrfehon is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2014, 01:55 AM   #19
theQ
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
Posts: 301
Liked 3 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 81

Default

I use a carboy. Glass. I went ahead an added 4 lbs of frozen raspberries. Will update you all in 6 months. It's at 65f,in the basement.

I used the wyeast limbic, it was tight air wise, what could trigger the vinegar aroma?

Anyone used this yeast, can you describe the aroma after 6 months?

Then why would one want to toss 5 gallons of good vinegar - assuming that I would get that. Bottle it and give it to friends for salad.

BTW it did attenuate to almost 1.000

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Home Brew mobile app
theQ is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2014, 02:14 AM   #20
CA_Mouse
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
CA_Mouse's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Riverside, Califiornia
Posts: 1,049
Liked 129 Times on 109 Posts
Likes Given: 304

Default

I use WLP655 Belgian Sour Mix, it has all four of the strains for sour ales. As for waiting months in primary before racking onto fruit, I primary mine for a month and then rack it onto the fruit and the WLP655 where it will sit for at least a year. My first one was absolutely wonderful, not sour, but very tart. I rebrewed the exact same beer nearly 2 months ago and did it exactly the same way. I have another going right now that I'm using a different primary yeast on and will rack it onto Black Cherries near the end of this month that I expect to leave it for 18 months.
__________________
Mouse
-==-

That which does not kill us makes us stronger. - Friedrich Nietzsche


Secondary: Dark Cherry Sour '13
Secondary: Pom-Cran Sour '13
Keg #1: Empty
Keg #2: Belgian Golden Rye
Keg #3: Empty
Keg #4: Dad's Applewine
Keg #5: Imperial Pumpkin
Keg #6: Imperial Pumpkin Collaboration
Keg #7: Empty
Keg #8: Empty
Bottled: Pom-Cran Sour '12
CA_Mouse is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Primary to secondary question Johnnyare General Techniques 17 08-01-2013 03:26 PM
Primary/Secondary Question brewnovice Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 12-15-2010 02:48 PM
Yet Another Question About Primary to Secondary DtownRiot Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 12-24-2008 05:37 PM
Another primary to secondary question shmevinator Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 6 10-06-2007 05:44 PM
Primary/Secondary Question ctkevin General Techniques 3 09-22-2007 11:32 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS