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Old 08-18-2013, 06:59 PM   #1
TNTgill
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Feb 2012
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Posts: 334
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As a background some of my favorite beers are Victory Helios, Green Flash Rayon Vert, and Goose Island Matilda. Please Help with a recipe for a saison and Belgian Pale Ale. I would like a large brett influence.

Current Inventory:
55# Pils
50# White wheat
30# 2 row
10# Cara-pils
10# C40
10# Rye
10# Vienna
3# Thomas Fawcett Amber
2 # acid malt
<1 # of flaked barley, aromatic, biscuit, chocolate, c-60,

Hops:
1.25# Amarillo
1# nugget
1# magnum
1# Falconers flight
1.25 # Citra
.8 # Hallertau
.8# Centennial
0.6# Simcoe
5oz Strisselspalt
4oz Cascade, summit, mt hood
1 oz sorachi ace

yeast
Bells-harvested
Conan-harvested
wyeast 3726
wlp 565
wlp 500
wlp001
s05
wlp645
wlp650

Anyone have thoughts or a recipe they would like to share. I can always buy other items if necessary but would like to use what i have first.

Thank you all

 
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:49 PM   #2
sweetcell
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you have everything you need to make a very nice rye saison:

75% pils
15% rye
5% table sugar
3% C-60
2% acidulated
rice hulls

mash for 60 mins at 148*F, then 15 minutes at 158 (second step optional, just mash 75 mins at 148)

- 60 min addition of Hallertau or Strisselspalt to get 25 IBUs
- a small late addition at flameout, like 0.5-1.0 oz of amarillo or citra (no, this isn't "by the books" but i really like it)

WLP565 (if you aren't familiar with this yeast read up on it. you could pitch a small starter of something else, like the 3726, at high krausen after the 565 stalls out... or you can wait out the 565).

if you can, age a portion (or all of it) with wlp650 for 6 months.

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What hops should I grow? Looking for cheap honey?
- Drinking: BPA made with ingredients from NHC, 2 blends of a rye sour: ECY20 + ECY34, local sour cherry kriek #2, brett'ed Belgian blond on raspberries
- Aging: Imperial Chocolate Milk Stout (half on coconut), sour blond on second-use cherries, English Barleywine (half on brett), 3726 saison w/ brett x2 (dregs mix & Lochristi), GNO 3724 saison w/ brett mix, sour cherry mead, acerglyn, and a few other sours...

 
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:17 PM   #3
BootsyFlanootsy
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Nov 2010
philadelphia, pa
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No need to make a good saison so complicated, it's the yeast that wants to shine.

Somewhere in the range of

80% Pils/Pale
10% munich/vienna/victory
5% wheat/rye/oats ... maybe some aromatic or biscuit.
5% Acidulated.

You could also make a stellar saison with say, 90%pils and 10%munich or wheat, or just 100% pils.

However, I am in league with those who would never dream of adding crystal malt to such a dry beer.

I also can NOT stand new world hops in a saison. I vote you stick with the Strisslespalt and Hallertau, though the Magnum's could make for a nice bitter version.


I find 565 works great, but needs the warmth and a BIG starter. Or, you could underpitch and wait for to stall and then add the Brett C. As the poster above noted, you'll want to wait a good 6-8 months for that to come into its prime though.

 
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:43 PM   #4
sweetcell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BootsyFlanootsy View Post
However, I am in league with those who would never dream of adding crystal malt to such a dry beer.
that's why i added the sugar. an all-pils saison is out of style, color-wise, according to the BJCP (if being style-compliant is even a concern...)

jamil has some caramunich in his classic recipe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BootsyFlanootsy View Post
Or, you could underpitch and wait for to stall and then add the Brett C.
some folks really like brett C in their saisons, but personally i find it a bit too restrained... i prefer B's funk.
__________________
What hops should I grow? Looking for cheap honey?
- Drinking: BPA made with ingredients from NHC, 2 blends of a rye sour: ECY20 + ECY34, local sour cherry kriek #2, brett'ed Belgian blond on raspberries
- Aging: Imperial Chocolate Milk Stout (half on coconut), sour blond on second-use cherries, English Barleywine (half on brett), 3726 saison w/ brett x2 (dregs mix & Lochristi), GNO 3724 saison w/ brett mix, sour cherry mead, acerglyn, and a few other sours...

 
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:37 AM   #5
TNTgill
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Feb 2012
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Posts: 334
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Thanks for the thoughts guys. I do have the ability to long age either beer so I will definitely do that. I can raise my temps up to 85 F or so but not much higher. Will this work for the saison yeast for primary? I definitely want so good funk so it will get Brett B. If it does stall out at say 1.030 will the brett still give some funk or will it be too clean. Also do you let if ferment completely out with the sacc yeast and then hit it with Brett or pitch the saison yeast and let it run several days then pitch Brett?

I think for the Brett C I may try for the C+C Brett Factory recipe from embrace the funk but primary with conan and secondary with Brett C. Any other ideas?

 
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:51 PM   #6
Idlehands
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Aug 2011
Spring Lake, Michigan
Posts: 4

A couple of weeks ago I brewed a Citra pale ale with Brett C and Brett B as the primary yeast. I pitched a vial of each in the fermenter without a starter. After 7 days at 85 the gravity was down to 1.011 from 1.056

I'm not sure if these results are typical of an all Brett fermentation. This is my first attempt.

 
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:08 PM   #7
TNGabe
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Aug 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idlehands
A couple of weeks ago I brewed a Citra pale ale with Brett C and Brett B as the primary yeast. I pitched a vial of each in the fermenter without a starter. After 7 days at 85 the gravity was down to 1.011 from 1.056

I'm not sure if these results are typical of an all Brett fermentation. This is my first attempt.
5 gallon batch?
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:19 PM   #8
Idlehands
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Aug 2011
Spring Lake, Michigan
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Sorry about that, it is a 5 gallon batch. Inspired by the C+C Brett Factory recipe from the Embrace the Funk website. I added the Brett B because I thought it would give a little stronger Brett character.

11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)
1 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 15 min
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 10 min
0.2 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 5 min
0.2 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 1 min
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 0 min
1 pkgs Brettanomyces Claussenii (White Labs #WLP645)
1 pkgs Brettanomyces Bruxellensis (White Labs #WLP650)

Reason: Add recipe

 
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:46 PM   #9
TNGabe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idlehands
Sorry about that, it is a 5 gallon batch. Inspired by the C+C Brett Factory recipe from the Embrace the Funk website. I added the Brett B because I thought it would give a little stronger Brett character.

11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)
1 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 15 min
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 10 min
0.2 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 5 min
0.2 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 1 min
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 0 min
1 pkgs Brettanomyces Claussenii (White Labs #WLP645)
1 pkgs Brettanomyces Bruxellensis (White Labs #WLP650)
Huh. I'm shocked you got that much attenuation from 2 vials considering that's under pitching a lot.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:54 PM   #10
Idlehands
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Aug 2011
Spring Lake, Michigan
Posts: 4

I figured I underpitched so I made a starter with some Brett C3. After about 30 hours the Brett B and Brett C fermentation took off so I never pitched the C3.

 
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