20, 30, 45 min. hop additions. Why?? - Home Brew Forums
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > 20, 30, 45 min. hop additions. Why??
Cool Brewing Giveaway - Supporting Membership Drive & Discount

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-13-2013, 07:08 AM   #1
seanppp
Recipes 
 
Jun 2013
Posts: 297
Liked 9 Times on 8 Posts



I am having trouble understanding hop additions that are not very early or very late. Hops provide three things

1. Bittering
2. Flavor
3. Aroma

-The best utilization for hop bittering is early additions (high bittering utilization, no Flavor+Aroma)
-The best utilization for hop F+A is late additions, since those compounds are volatile and evaporate away the longer they are boiled (little bittering, high Flavor+Aroma).

But when you add hops at 20, 30, 45 minutes, ie in the "middle" of the process, it seems to me that you are not extracting the most AAs you can out of the hop, and you are boiling away a lot of the Flavor+Aroma! Seems like a waste of hops. Why not just keep to early and late hopping? Would you get more out of your hops that way?

Obviously there are a lot of brewers smarter than me who do it, so I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just trying to figure out why it's done. Doesn't make any sense to me.



 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 07:34 AM   #2
dbsmith
Recipes 
 
Feb 2011
Seattle, Wa
Posts: 409
Liked 27 Times on 19 Posts


Personally, most of my hop additions are at least 60 minutes or 15 minutes and under, but I would suspect that you still are getting a decent amount of flavor. Maybe bridging the gap between aroma and bittering. I just see time as a kind of gradient between the 3. Perhaps if you don't want too much more bitterness, but you want to also add some flavor, so you go for 25 minutes...etc. Also, you may have a really high alpha acid hop, like warrior, that doesn't impart much flavor when used around 60 minutes. So you only need to use a small amount, but you also want some flavor, so you throw in a little cascade in that middle boil time zone.



 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 10:04 AM   #3
seanppp
Recipes 
 
Jun 2013
Posts: 297
Liked 9 Times on 8 Posts


[QUOTE] Also, you may have a really high alpha acid hop, like warrior, that doesn't impart much flavor when used around 60 minutes. So you only need to use a small amount, but you also want some flavor, so you throw in a little cascade in that middle boil time zone.[\QUOTE]

But in that case, why not use less Cascade later in the boil? You'll get the same flavor contribution but with less hops.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 11:03 AM   #4
Weezy
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
Weezy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jan 2013
Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 1,767
Liked 333 Times on 236 Posts


For the most part, yes, I agree. A lot of pro brews are now simply bittering at start of boil and late whirlpool additions. I believe the reality is that there are different flavors imparted by the hops with some cooking off more quickly than others (with the "aroma" characteristics being the most volatile/short lived). The flavor should be expected to be different between a 60, 30, 0 min scenario vs. a 60, 0 min scenario. Now, how different and is it worth it should depend on the hop or more likely the hop combination. I have not done any specific side by side testing myself so its difficult to gauge the effect, but this would be my expectation.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 11:23 AM   #5
pcollins
Recipes 
 
Mar 2010
Cambridge, ON
Posts: 563
Liked 31 Times on 29 Posts


I wish it were so black and white.

Folks are experimenting with adding hops at any stage of the brew: Mash, First wort, boil, mid-boil, end of boil, whirlpool, steep, dry. (I think that covers it). I don't think it's as easy as "early is bittering, late is flavour/aroma." Hops react differently in different temperatures and durations of those temps.

I used to be in the mind set of only early and late additions but started adding hops around 15-20 minutes before the end of boil and I like it. Just experiment and see what works or see what changes they impart... There is no wrong.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 11:35 AM   #6
seanppp
Recipes 
 
Jun 2013
Posts: 297
Liked 9 Times on 8 Posts


THanks pcollins. Could you tell me what that character of an "intermediate" hopped beer is as compared with a "early+late" hopped beer? If there is indeed a unique character to intermediate hopping I will start to do it more often. But thusfar I can't pinpoint anything.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 08:40 PM   #7
strambo
Recipes 
 
Oct 2011
Portland, Oregon
Posts: 600
Liked 51 Times on 42 Posts


I FWH or 60 mins, then my next addition is at 20 because that time adds the most flavor according to the info I've seen. I finish with a 5 or flameout addition and a dry hop. My PAs and IPAs have lots of flavor and aroma.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 09:02 PM   #8
GilSwillBasementBrews
Super Moderator
HBT_MODERATOR.png
 
GilSwillBasementBrews's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jul 2012
Eagleville, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,552
Liked 230 Times on 192 Posts


The only time I will throw hops in at varying times from the normal 60,15,5 is if I'm following a recipe, looking for a certain amount of IBU,s, or if the AA% is greatly different than the amount used in the original recipe. If the recipe called for 10AA% hops at 60 and the hops I picked up were 15 instead of using less I will just move forward the pitching time of those hops until the IBUs are closer to that of the original recipe.
__________________
Beer Plus Science = .....Good!!!!! By: Adam Savage

 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 09:25 PM   #9
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jun 2006
UP of Michigan, Winter Texan
Posts: 68,516
Liked 7369 Times on 5209 Posts


I wouldn't say the bittering hops provide no flavor- as they do. If you use a hop variety like chinook or columbus vs tettnanger for bittering, as an example, I know you could pick out the difference. It might be in the harshness or in the finish, but you'll know the difference.

But overall, for most beers I do a FHW or 60 minute/15/0 schedule for hops.

For a hop-forward beer like an IPA, I'll go with FWH/15/10/5/0/dryhop schedule.

I almost never do 30 minute, 45 minute, or 20 minute additions.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006

tadkays Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 12:45 AM   #10
eastoak
Recipes 
 
Jan 2011
oakland, california
Posts: 3,287
Liked 158 Times on 148 Posts


for pale ales, which is most of what i brew, i do a 60 min for 20-30 IBU, a 5 min, then a 15 min hop stand. the late additions vary as to how many IBUs are in the finished beer but i usually try for 50-70 IBU. i get so much more flavor and aroma and the quality of the bitterness is very pleasing.



 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Additions Farside17 Mead Forum 1 04-17-2012 11:10 AM
Sugar Additions and Other ingredient additions. Timing, preparation..random question michaelskocik Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 04-05-2012 03:12 PM
Wit additions? bullinachinashop All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 11 05-01-2011 05:09 AM
LME additions rwabdu Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 4 04-27-2011 03:44 PM
Hop Additions tagz General Techniques 1 02-11-2008 02:34 PM


Forum Jump