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Old 07-02-2013, 03:31 AM   #1
Amarillo4BRKFST
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Hello homebrewers and beer enthusiasts alike. I have found myself making a disproportionately large amount of hoppy beers lately under various guises (IPA's, PA's, rye IPA's....etc.) and subsequently reading a lot about the methods of achieving great hoppy flavors.

So this is a dual purposed post -
1) I see a lot of people referring to hopbursting and upon closer examination of the process - it appears they are simply referring to your good old fashioned late boil additions for flavor? Right? With the caveat that the bittering is supposed to come from the disproportionately LARGE additions.

2) Trouble shooting! I made an IPA with the following stats ~1 mo ago:

Grain:
10lb Pale 2row
1lb Cr 60

Single Infusion Mash w/ 160 degree strike water for 1 hr (total volume = 5.034 gallons after hot water additions to maintain temp). Batch sparge w/ 170 degree water - can't remember volume - less than mash vol though

Hops:
.5 oz Magnum 13.7 AA - 60 min
same but 30 min
.5 oz Falc Flight 11.4 AA - 20 min
2 oz Cascade 6.2 AA - 20 min
.5 oz Falc Flight 11.4 AA - 10 min
.25 oz Amarillo 8.7 AA - 5 min
.5 oz Simcoe 13 AA - 5 min

1oz Cascade Dry
.5oz Simcoe Dry

Gave it a fermentation schedule that I did not want to (relatives came to town and made me busy)
1 wk Primary
2 wks Secondary
~1 wk Bottle

Results: Earthy flavors with an utter lack of citrus in the nose or on my tongue.... robbed is the best word to describe my reactions. Can anyone help a guy out with his deficient hoppiness blues? The question I hope ties nicely into my first question concerning hopbursting - as I am exploring it as a potential solution.


Thanks!
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:15 AM   #2
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1) The term "Hopburst" seems to have originated in a post on an older forum, brewboard.com. It is essentially using nothing but late additions.

http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=26859 <-- Start of thread about "Overloading Hops" (All late additions)

http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?s...c=26859&st=105 <-- First mention of "hopburst"!


2) Were the hops old?

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Old 07-02-2013, 11:26 AM   #3
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As Nagorg said, with hop bursting you don't add a traditional 60-90 minute "bittereing" charge at all. So many of the newer hops are high in alpha so hop bursting doesn't require a extreme amount. Just yesterday I brewed an all-Citra PA where the earliest addition was at 20 minutes, the total boil hops are only 4 ounces, and I've still got 45 IBU.

Re your IPA, I think your late additions are too small. Simple adjustment would be to move your 10 and 20 minute additions to 5 minutes (or later, even flameout) and move your 30 minute Magnum back to keep the same IBU.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:35 AM   #4
grathan
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Try "hop stands" aka "steeping hops".

Can you name a commercial brew your trying to emulate?

I agree that your late additions are very small if you looking for aroma. Citrusy would include some late centennial I would think. Your dry hop addition is small too.

 
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:10 PM   #5
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I'm with CaptainDamage and grathan, your biggest problem is that you simply don't have enough hops.

I modified your recipe to the schedules and amounts I used on Thursday for a nice hoppy pale ale. I used Mosaic and Amarillo, 4 oz in the flameout/hopstand additions and one ounce of Mosaic for bittering.

The airlock smells like a tangerine and fruit punch Hi C juicebox right now and I haven't even dryhopped yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarillo4BRKFST View Post

Hops:
1.5oz Magnum 13.7 AA - 60 min

0.5oz Cascade 6.2 AA -0 min (10min stand before chilling)
0.5oz Falc Flight 11.4 AA - 0 min(10min stand before chilling)
0.5oz Amarillo 8.7 AA - 0 min(10min stand before chilling)
0.5oz Simcoe 13 AA - 0min(10min stand before chilling)

0.5oz Cascade 6.2 AA -0 min (5min stand before chilling)
0.5oz Falc Flight 11.4 AA - 0 min (5min stand before chilling)
0.5oz Amarillo 8.7 AA - 0 min (5min stand before chilling)
0.5oz Simcoe 13 AA - 0min (5min stand before chilling)

1oz Cascade Dry
1oz Simcoe Dry


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Old 07-02-2013, 12:33 PM   #6
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We have several of our customers that are playing around with hop bursting. The first I ever even heard of it was about 6-8 months ago and really what they are all doing is VERY large very late additions. Were talking 4-5+ oz of hops the last 15 min or less. I have been able to taste a few IPA's that were brought back in the store and some have been KILLER!. I like it for the most part because were seeing interesting aromas you wouldn't get any other way. But you do use a LOT of hops.

Cheers
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:45 PM   #7
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Maybe you should try more flameout hops and a hopstand. Try at least 2 oz (if not more) at flameout and then at least a 30 minute hop stand. I did a 60 minute hop stand on a recent hoppy red ale and it turned out awesome! Then I usually do 2-3 oz of dry hops.

 
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
But you do use a LOT of hops.
But 4-5 ounces of hops in a 5 gallon batch is not an excessive quantity! Again, we're taking advantage of the fact that many of the hops we use for hop bursting are high alpha. The Citra I used in my PA yesterday has an aa rating of 13.5%! If I was going to make a "British" style version of this beer, using East Kent Goldings instead of Citra, I might use the same total amount of EKG, but I'd have to put 2 ounces of it at 60 minutes, and Id' lose most of it's aroma.
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Old 07-02-2013, 03:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Damage View Post
But 4-5 ounces of hops in a 5 gallon batch is not an excessive quantity! Again, we're taking advantage of the fact that many of the hops we use for hop bursting are high alpha. The Citra I used in my PA yesterday has an aa rating of 13.5%! If I was going to make a "British" style version of this beer, using East Kent Goldings instead of Citra, I might use the same total amount of EKG, but I'd have to put 2 ounces of it at 60 minutes, and Id' lose most of it's aroma.
Ohh man I totally agree its not an "excessive" amount of hops for sure!

Cheers
Jay
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:21 PM   #10
Amarillo4BRKFST
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Thank you all for your replies - to address some things said:

Hops were not old - purchased them from the lhbs maybe ~1wk before brewday and they circulate quickly there
I was afraid deficient quantity was ultimately a prime suspect; hoping that would not be the case. However I see a few of the above posts referencing ~4/5 oz - which I was pretty close to @ 3.75oz 20 min or later additions. I can see how this # can be increased - and will be - but it doesn't seem far off from some of the suggestions. However the earthy flavors I got still elude explanation? Seemed like a muddled, earthy, hoppiness that lacked clarity of flavor.

I have read about making hop teas, and even read that one poster's thread from 2010 about using a French coffee press to do so but have not looked into a hop stand yet - that is on today's to do list.
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