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Old 01-23-2014, 02:41 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altimate_one View Post
This is what I had in mind, after watching some youtube. Maybe the group can critique my thoughts.

I planned on taking the initial water & grains up to the 122 F (in the cooler) and wait the 20 minutes, then I would drain 75% of the liquid, put it back in the kettle and raise the temp to achieve the 147 F and add it back to the cooler for the second rest. Repeating this process once more for the 160 F. I planned on draining that and doing a separate sparge for the last 168 F step.

If anyone wants to help improve on this step I am all ears.
EDIT: After a bit of reading, I would recommend against a dough in at the protein rest range when using well/highly modified malts. Instead, I would aim for a acid and/or beta-glucanase rest in the 95-113F range. If, on the other hand, you're using a moderate or low modified malt (you'll know if you are) then the protein rest is probably a logical dough in temp; although there are probably still reasons why you'd want to do a acid/glucanase rest prior.

From 122F to 147F: use a thick portion of the grist (mostly grain)
From 147F to 160F: use a thick portion of the grist (mostly grain)
From 160F to 168F: use a thin potion of the grist (mostly wort)

If your first step is mostly wort then you'll denature the enzymes contained within that wort, which will be a lot of them, and leave them unavailable for your beta rest. Do it again for the alpha rest and you may not have enough enzyme left to convert the remaining starches.

You can, and should, use a thin decoction for the last step since your goal at that point IS to denature the enzymes to stop any further conversion.

HTH!
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:55 PM   #42
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stpug, Thanks for clearing that up, and for confirming that I wasn't completely nuts.
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Old 03-07-2014, 04:06 PM   #43
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Brewed this a few weeks ago as my first pilsner, have it lagering now. This is the first time I've done something other than a single infusion mash, and have to say I really enjoyed the process. I ended up using my boil kettle to do the steps, with touches of flame and lots of stirring. Turned out to be a lot easier than I was anticipating, and had no trouble holding temp at the various rests. For the final rest I got it up to temp then transferred it to my mash cooler, so I could collect my runnings in the kettle. Of course all that stirring and what not blew my efficiency past the 70% I was expecting to close to 85%! Going to be a beast of a beer!

Anyway, I got to thinking how much more fun the mash was, and wondered if I could use this method for all my beers. Anyone have any general guidelines or recommended reading on what to consider with all the different rests and timings and what not? Lots more knobs than the single infusion. Hooray beer!
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:40 PM   #44
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I have now switched to only pilsner as a base malt (well vienna and munich too). No Pale malt. I have much better success manipulating pilsner malt over pale malt. I use step mashes for EVERY beer I do. I always use the same temperatures and just change the times. If I want something richer and full bodied, I'll take 10 min. OFF of my rest at 146F and add it to my 160 F rest. For a crisp pilsner/lager I'll do 30 min. at 146 F. If I'm doing an ale of some sort, I will shorten that time at 146 F,

Also note that I always do a 20 min. protein rest. If you skip that step, I'd add a little time to the other rests, as I do get some starch conversion during the p-rest stage
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:55 PM   #45
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Good tips, thanks. Seems like everyone warns against using a p-rest on fully modified malts, I take it that's less of an issue with the pilsner malt?
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:13 PM   #46
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Quote:
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Good tips, thanks. Seems like everyone warns against using a p-rest on fully modified malts, I take it that's less of an issue with the pilsner malt?
No, it's still very much an issue for all highly/well modified malts (I edited my post above to reflect this). I would only look at any kind of extended protein rest when using under-modified malts; however, I may use a short upper-temp protein rest for the purpose of increasing foam stability.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:42 PM   #47
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Quote:
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Good tips, thanks. Seems like everyone warns against using a p-rest on fully modified malts, I take it that's less of an issue with the pilsner malt?
If you read the various books out there, they all pretty much say you do not need to do a protein rest with today's malts. The big issue with less modified malts is you are more likely to get chill haze. With today's malts they are modified more such that the risk of chill haze is greatly reduced, therefore you do not NEED to do a protein rest - with respect to preventing chill haze. Not needing to do one is different from you shouldn't do one. I still maintain that there is an advantage to a short rest to increase the amount of head and body promoting proteins. The difference is not big, but to ME it is worth it. Plus it is very easy for me to do on my rig.

The books also say too long a protein rest can result in a thin beer - which is very true. This often gets misinterpreted to ANY sort of protein rest is bad, which it not what the books say. This highlights the importance of protein in a beer and then gives us another component (proteins) to play with in creating a wort with the properties you desire, not just the carbohydrates
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:21 AM   #48
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Took a 1st in the Pilsner category during the Denver First Round for the 2014 NHC with this recipe...many thanks! Pretty much stuck with the original recipe using a Pilsen water profile built up from distilled water. When I first tasted it following carbonation, I knew it was a great example of the style and pretty much knew it would become one I brewed regularly. Did not score nearly as well as I expected in a local contest back in February and I was greatly disappointed with the scoresheets and the comments. The NHC has been a vindication for me Still do not have the scoresheets from NHC, though. My second batch is currently lagering and I may submit the Final Round entries out of that batch, although I do still have two bottles left from the original batch.
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Old 05-09-2014, 07:29 PM   #49
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You'll be up against me in the finals. My CAP (slight tweaking) took 2nd in NYC - my Ger. pils took 1st.
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Old 05-10-2014, 04:24 AM   #50
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Sounds like a wonderful 1-2 combination
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