Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Stirring sparge water+grains???
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-29-2013, 06:55 AM   #1
seanppp
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 280
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default Stirring sparge water+grains???

You see in the video here (http://youtu.be/h5J8S5nBdUc) at around 13:30, that John Palmer stirs the sparge water with the grains. Isn't this kind of the same thing as squeezing the grain bag, which as we all know is a no no. What is the difference? Doesn't the agitation that Palmer is causing release the tannins just like squeezing the grain bag?


seanppp is offline
vnzjunk Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 07:53 AM   #2
jtratcliff
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jtratcliff's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 837
Liked 174 Times on 133 Posts
Likes Given: 41

Default

Um, no?

Squeezing is about the pressure... Which isn't really a problem on our scale anyway (compared to the big boys). And probably doesn't extract tannins anyway.

Stirring isn't like squeezing that I can see. Am I missing something? Do you have something else mind?


jtratcliff is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 08:29 AM   #3
seanppp
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 280
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

I always like posts that start with "um". Thanks for that.

I was thinking it had more to do with agitation.
seanppp is offline
puccetti Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:58 AM   #4
CrystalShip
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Whidbey Island, Wa
Posts: 310
Liked 21 Times on 16 Posts
Likes Given: 14

Default

I stir during the sparge and squeeze the grain bag. I think these are both homebrew myths.

I make great beer
CrystalShip is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 06:37 AM   #5
jtratcliff
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jtratcliff's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 837
Liked 174 Times on 133 Posts
Likes Given: 41

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanppp View Post
I always like posts that start with "um". Thanks for that.

I was thinking it had more to do with agitation.
Um, Glad I could I could make your day

From what I've read here, tannins are extracted by pH and pressure. Real pressure. Like hundreds of lbs of grain pressure. The amount of pressure from squeezing your bag won't cause any issues. Even boiling temps don't matter if the pH is in range.

Agitation doesn't seem to be an issue. It's commonly recommended to stir like mad at several points in the mashing process.

Fly sparging can have tannin issues, I think (I batch sparge), but again, that's pH.

Reason: Ph->pH
jtratcliff is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 12:33 AM   #6
brewkinger
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
brewkinger's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: East Podunck, Vermont
Posts: 2,003
Liked 265 Times on 221 Posts
Likes Given: 304

Default

Sooooo..... no. Stirring is not an issue.

As a matter of fact if you are purchasing your grains milled at the LHBS, where the quality of the crush cannot be certain, then stirring the heck out of your mash after the sparge IMO is essential!

If you think about the mash / batch sparge (or fly sparge) process, especially for newer brewers like us, it all makes perfect sense.

Grains and water soak at predetermined temperature and time, converting starch to sugars and then sugar water is drained off.
The remaining grains have a fair amount of sugar left to rinse and gather.
Add hot water and stir the crap out of them to free up all the sugars stuck to the grain husks and inside partially crushed (hopefully not too many of these).
__________________
Blackbird Brewing

PRIMARY: SNPA Clone v2.0
PRIMARY: Centennial Blonde
BOTTLED: Razapple Wine- Vintage 2014
KEGGED: Spring Thaw American IPA
PLANNING: Blackbird Haus Pale Ale
PLANNING: A Lil' Less Ordinary
Do not mistake my kindness for weakness. I am kind to everyone, but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what you will remember about me.
brewkinger is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 10:16 AM   #7
mblanks2
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: , The State of Confusion!
Posts: 579
Liked 42 Times on 39 Posts
Likes Given: 49

Default

Another question about this. Palmer states that in areas with high alkalinity water such as 8.0 to 9.0, when mashing you'll be in the 6.0 and higher range. What if you started with say 6.8 or 7.0, where should this put the mash ph approx.? 5.0 - 5.8??
mblanks2 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 11:12 AM   #8
cluckk
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,599
Liked 356 Times on 228 Posts
Likes Given: 47

Default

It should be close to those numbers. However, you should get something to calculate these changes--like the Bru'n Water spreadsheet.

As for the stir, there is no problem with stirring during batch sparging--it is actually part of the process. I stir several times during the mash--usually every twenty minutes--then do batch sparging, where I fill with a calculated amount of sparge water, stir, let rest, vorlauf and then continue the lauter. Sometimes I use multiple sparges. I calculate these with BrewSmith.

Stirring will not draw tannins, because as was already said, this happens with pH and pressure. With stirring there is no increase in pressure--just agitation. As for squeezing the bag, I'm of the opinion that it would take far more pressure to draw out tannins than you could possibly provide with a little squeeze. Others disagree and are free to not squeeze their own bag. I promise not to squeeze anyone else's bag against their will--ever. Wait! That didn't sound right for some reason.


__________________
"So you say you just brewed your first batch of beer. Welcome to the obsession." --me, to every first time brewer I ever meet.
cluckk is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Not stirring the grains MrsJones Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 21 01-25-2013 08:23 PM
Steeping Dark Grains In Sparge Water? BeerLogic All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 25 09-30-2012 11:22 PM
Batch sparge-stirring before first runnings Pete08 General Techniques 4 12-28-2008 06:39 PM
Stirring a fly sparge? foxtrot All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 5 09-27-2007 02:31 AM
Automation - Stirring Grains in the MLT nabs478 General Techniques 10 08-08-2007 01:56 AM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS