Belgian Golden Strong Ale Cherub Nectar Belgian Golden Strong: Third BOS at 2013 Door County Competition

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Pappers_

Moderator Emeritus
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
17,908
Reaction score
4,419
Location
Chicago
Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
Abbey Ale and Belgian Golden Strong (both White Labs)
Yeast Starter
yes
Batch Size (Gallons)
5.5
Original Gravity
1.074
Final Gravity
1.004
Boiling Time (Minutes)
60
IBU
32
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
20
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
none
Tasting Notes
the potent abv of this beer is hidden by its easy-to-drink qualities, light and dry
This beer, brewed collaboratively with my oldest son, took first place in its category and third place BOS at the 2013 Door County Beer Festival Homebrew Competition in Bailey's Harbor last Saturday.

Key to this style is that its devilishly high potency is masked by its dry, light drinkability. To achieve that, we used plenty of yeast (I made two 1/2 gallon starters of Abbey and Belgian Golden Strong WL strains), mashed low, added 2.5 lbs of sugar, and ramped the fermentation temp up over time. The hops are just some we had on hand, they are only there to add some bittering.

http://www.singingboysbrewing.com/Cherub-Nectar-Belgian-Golden-Strong.html

11 lbs Pilsner Malt
2.5 lbs Cane Sugar
1 lb Extra Light Dry Malt Extract
1 lb. Wheat Malt
1.25 oz. Mt. Ranier hops (6% aa) 60 minutes
1 oz. Challenger hops (5.2% aa) 60 minutes
Irish Moss
Belgian Golden Ale Yeast
Abbey Ale Yeast

Original Gravity: 1.074
Final Gravity: 1.004
ABV: 9.5%
Bitterness: 32.1 IBUs
Mash: 148 F for 60 minutes, single infusion, batch sparge
Fermentation started at 60F, ramped up to 76F
 
I have a couple more questions (sorry) :D
-I'm seeing about 1.084 on a 5.25G batch withOUT the DME, on about 73% estimated efficiency. Do you know why the discrepancy?
-Did you use "fairly soft" water (BJCP description) because I'm working with fairly hard water where I'm at?
 
I have a couple more questions (sorry) :D
-I'm seeing about 1.084 on a 5.25G batch withOUT the DME, on about 73% estimated efficiency. Do you know why the discrepancy?
-Did you use "fairly soft" water (BJCP description) because I'm working with fairly hard water where I'm at?

I don't have access to Beersmith on this computer so will need to get back to you later with the exact answer, but I generally get 70% efficiency. On bigger beers, that efficiency will go down. Also, this batch was almost 6 gallons going into the carboy, I will change that in the recipe.

I use standard Chicago-area tap water, from Lake Michigan, which is generally regarded as fine for brewing. I let it sit overnight to release any chlorine and I add campden to neutralize any chloramines. Other than that, I didn't adjust the water.
 
Perfect!
6 gallon batch at >=70% efficiency explains it - thank you!!
I guess my water is not far off from your based on the chicago water reports I've seen here. I'll roll with it :D
 
This one has just moved into the #1 spot on my to-do list Pappers, and I'm really excited for it. It'll be a couple week out yet because I've got a vacation planned but just want you to know that I'm antsy to get a move on this one. I've adjusted the base malt and sugar down a hair to match my setup so I'm close to the OG, and I think I'm going to add a couple small additions of styrian and saaz at 10 and 5, respectively. I'm not decided on what yeast(s) I'll be using. I've got a few at my disposal that should fit the bill on this one; built-up westmalle bottle dregs 3787, built-up pranqster bottle dregs (yeast blend), and farmhouse ale WY3726. I'll probably either go all pranqster (a blend already) or a blend of westmalle and farmhouse; I'm 50/50 on which one to do.
 
I'm proud to say that this one is officially in the books and I pitched my built-up pranqster bottle dregs 10 minutes ago. I'm really excited for this one (but I'm ALWAYS excited for EVERY one :D). I scrapped the idea of really late addition hops figuring they'd be gone by the time I let this one age anyway, however I did do a 20 minute addition of styrian goldings. Thanks for sharing!!!

Here's how I ended up with my system and hit my OG right on the nose:
Code:
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal   
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.075 SG
Estimated Color: 3.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 29.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 74.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
3.30 ml               Lactic Acid (Mash 60.0 mins)             Water Agent   1        -             
9 lbs 8.0 oz          Pilsen (Dingemans) (1.6 SRM)             Grain         2        74.5 %        
1 lbs                 Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM)   Grain         3        7.8 %         
0.700 oz              Belma [9.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min           Hop           4        21.7 IBUs     
1.500 oz              StyrianGoldings(Celeia) [2.9 %]-Boil 20m Hop           5        7.6 IBUs      
0.50 Items            Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 mins)         Fining        6        -             
2 lbs 4.0 oz          Sugar, Table (Sucrose) [Boil for 1 min]  Sugar         7        17.6 %        
1.0 pkg               North Coast PranQster Bottle Dregs       Yeast         8        -             


Mash Schedule: Step Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 12 lbs 12.0 oz
----------------------------
Name              Description                          Step Temperat Step Time     
Protein Rest      Add 8.15 qt of water at 124.6 F      113.0 F       15 min        
Saccharification1 Add 5.50 qt of water at 209.8 F      146.0 F       45 min        
Saccharification2 Add 3.67 qt of water at 210.7 F      158.0 F       25 min        

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun, 2.5gal, 1.75gal) of 185.0 F water

Notes:
------
Plans:
-Pitch at 65F and keep there for 1 day of fermentation
-Let free rise in to 72F and maintain for majority of fermentation
-Goal is 65F-72F using free rise
-Keep in 70s until FG is reached 2 week or more

Actual:
Steps I hit were: 117, 146. 155
Cooled to ~71F with immersion chiller
Was able to finally cool to ~64-65F in water bath with frozen ice packs
Pitched at ~64-65F
Put under swamp cooler to keep cool
 
Almost two weeks in the fermenter and I thought I'd check the gravity (flavor and aroma too).
1.004 FG (~9.4% ABV)!! I totally did not expect to get this low - I figured I'd peter out around 1.008-1.010 (~8.5% ABV) but the fermentables combined with pranqster yeast did the job.

The comment I actually wrote in my beersmith notes was:
"Holy F*cking WOW!!!!!" (but I spelled it all out correctly ;)).

At less than 2 weeks old, I'm as impressed with this beer as I have been with most/many/all golden strongs I've bought that were aged much longer. The belgian yeast characteristics come through very much like they do in pranqster; same fruitiness with some spice and a strong belgian yeast character. I sense a little graininess/wheatiness which works very well, and I imagine this will mellow down a hair as the beer clarifies and settles.

I guess what I'm trying to say is:

Thanks for sharing your recipe Pappers. It inspired me to try my first big belgian beer and I'm totally impressed!
 
Almost two weeks in the fermenter and I thought I'd check the gravity (flavor and aroma too).
1.004 FG (~9.4% ABV)!! I totally did not expect to get this low - I figured I'd peter out around 1.008-1.010 (~8.5% ABV) but the fermentables combined with pranqster yeast did the job.

The comment I actually wrote in my beersmith notes was:
"Holy F*cking WOW!!!!!" (but I spelled it all out correctly ;)).

At less than 2 weeks old, I'm as impressed with this beer as I have been with most/many/all golden strongs I've bought that were aged much longer. The belgian yeast characteristics come through very much like they do in pranqster; same fruitiness with some spice and a strong belgian yeast character. I sense a little graininess/wheatiness which works very well, and I imagine this will mellow down a hair as the beer clarifies and settles.

I guess what I'm trying to say is:

Thanks for sharing your recipe Pappers. It inspired me to try my first big belgian beer and I'm totally impressed!

Sounds great, congratulations on your batch!
 
Hello Pappers, I brewed your recipe with my BREWHA BIAC 6 weeks ago. Not able to wait to age, and everyone is impressed at the taste. Thanks very much for sharing this recipe.

Loved it so much, and so and shared with friends fast, decided to brew 10 gal. Ever do a 10 gal batch? How long did the active fermentation take for you?
 
Hello Pappers, I brewed your recipe with my BREWHA BIAC 6 weeks ago. Not able to wait to age, and everyone is impressed at the taste. Thanks very much for sharing this recipe.

Loved it so much, and so and shared with friends fast, decided to brew 10 gal. Ever do a 10 gal batch? How long did the active fermentation take for you?

I've never ramped up this recipe to ten gallons. Glad your batch turned out well!
 
I've got a friend's 40th birthday coming up and I'm looking at brewing this one again ;)
because it was so good the first go round.
Thanks again!
 
I decided to brew this again as well, this coming weekend. I was new to brewing first time around, in April 2016. This time will be batch #14. Ten gallons. I am using WL Abbey (1 pkg) and Monastery (3 pkgs). Will make a 3 liter starter, tonight. Using 22 lb Belgian Pilsner and 2 lb Lt German Wheat. Styrian goldings 60 minutes and Czech saaz hops 15 minutes. Single step mash, 60 minutes, Boil for 90 minutes, (to destroy DMS precursor and avoid chance of creamed corn off flavor from pilsner malt). Will use sugar per Pappers' recipe, or maybe substitute some Belgian candi syrup.

I'll be doing a single step mash. Why? I have a Brewha BIAC, and have to be careful with the heating element. I have scorched a couple batches. I use the full volume of water in the mash. I don't add later. (Although I guess I could.) I keep the power level at 30% during mash. That makes it very slow to raise the mash temp. A 60 minute mash turns into hour and 40 minutes. So, I have given up on step mashing, and mash-out. My first 2 batches using a variant of Pappers' Cherub Nectar recipe turned out very well (ABV'wise and friends liked the taste) with a single step mash at around 148. Temp ranges from 146 to 152. Controller turns heating element on when temp drops 1 degree below set point. But overshoot creates this wider range. And taking off the lid to stir periodically also contributes to the temp range.

First couple batches I fermented for 4 weeks. I had read that Belgian styles can benefit by this longer time on the yeast. I have reduced that to 3 and I may just see where the gravity is this time after 2 weeks and rack then.

Another point, with the Brewha BIAC the fermenter is conical. I did not know better, and so I left the protein in the cone the entire time. Again, taste was not affected. I have heard from others this could harm the beer. Why? This time I will go ahead and remove the protein from the bottom of the cone before pitching.

Looking forward to doing this one again. Lately I have been toning down the ABV of my recipes to 5.5 - 6%. But my wife and a few friends want me to brew this one again. So, here goes! Will try to give some feedback. I loved this beer the first time around. Thanks for the recipe, Pappers.

Ron8.
 
Can anyone help me with a more detailed fermentation schedule for Cherub Nectar?

I brewed this yesterday, April 15th. Pitched at 63 late yesterday, and set temp controller to 63 set point. Fermenter temp dropped to 60 this morning. I lowered the set point to 60. Just don't know how quickly I should let temp rise. Pappers recipe called for 60 to 75 F in 3 weeks.

Should I keep it down at 60 for the entire active fermentation? Or let it rise and hold at 65 during active fermentation.

It began bubbling slowly today around noon, 14 hours after pitching.

Your suggestions will be much appreciated.

Ron8
 
April 18, 2017. After I realized I had pitched more yeast than the fermentables called for, I decided I have to add cane sugar (table sugar) to balance out for the 4 packets of yeast. I used 3 Monastery WLP500 and 1 Abbey WLP530, per recipe.

I already had at home 2 lb Simplicity Belgian Candi Syrup, so to see how the syrup would affect the flavor/texture by itself, I just used that on brew day, no other sugar. What I forgot was ALL THAT YEAST.

A timeline for those who like details:

Pitched Sat, Apr 15th. Fermenter temp 63F, then overnight it dropped to 60F.
Sun, Apr 16. Bubbling in air lock started 14 hours after pitching. Temp staying around 60.
Mon, Apr 17, evening. Bubbling halted. Fermenter temp still 60.

I noted the optimal temp of these yeasts is 65 to 72, so I decided to raise up to 65 over a 2 day period.

Tue, Apr 18, evening. Fermenter temp 64F.
My temp control uses cold water flowing through fermenter jacket. Cold water around 36 to 38 F. When temp rises 1 degree above set point a chugger pump circulates cold water through jacket. Cools it, overshoots a couple degrees, shocking the yeast, stopping air lock activity.

I decided to try to raise the cold water temp to 40 - 45 F.
And also decided to add 3 lb cane sugar dissolved in 1 1/2 liters boiled water, after it cooled to around 80F, then pouring in via a funnel through the port in the top of the fermenter.

Wed, Apr 19 8 AM, slow air lock activity, then at noon, vigorous air lock activity. Fermenter temp at 65. Set point 66F. It is cycling in between set point up to 67, then cooled down to 65 or 64. But at this time fermentation is vigorous, and is proceeding normally now.

Another point, the starter was at around 78F when pitched into 63F wort. Immediately after, overnight the wort dropped to 60F. So, the temperature shock and the over pitched yeast relative to the fermentables seems to have created this slow adjustment.

I was very concerned the over pitching was going to cause a stuck fermentation, and so decided to add the sugar 3 days after the brew day. Something I had not done before. I have only brewed 14 batches and have not encountered these issues before.

- Ron8
 
I thought I would continue to report on the week's activities relative to fermenting this copy of Pappers' Cherub Nectar.

Air lock activity slowed Thursday, 5 days after brew day. On Saturday night (7 days after brew day) I switched temp control to heating in order to avoid fermenter temp from dropping again as it had 2 days after brew day. That was a mistake, too soon in hindsight. Fermenter temp went 68 F overnight to 75 F. I switched to cooling and brought fermenter temp back to 67 F set point. Sunday 4 PM it was at 64. Overshoot. Switched to heating at a set point of 65 F to see if the temp would rise again on its own. It rose to 68 by 11:30 PM Sunday. I switched to cooling with set point of 70 F. Monday morning, Apr 24, fermenter temp at 67 F. Gravity reading taken Sunday evening is 1.004. 1.06 OG, including the effect of the syrup and cane sugar. ABV 7.39%.

Will keep in fermenter until at least Saturday, and possibly 1 more week.

- Ron8
 
Last evening, Monday, April 24th, I noticed the air lock activity had subsided again, enough to make me feel safe in changing again to heating, again, to be sure the temp did not drop down too much. I set temp controller to give heat from warm water bath when temp dropped below 66F.

8 AM this morning the temp had risen from 68F evening before to 73F. Another example of not knowing in detail what is going on inside the fermenter. Even after gravity dropped to 1.004 on Sunday (7 days after brewday), there is enough yeast activity to release heat and raise temp 5 degrees with virtually no air lock activity - 1 bubble every 40 seconds, I counted, on Monday night.

I switched to cooling before heading to work. Checked at noon, and ferm temp was at 66F, one degree below the 67F set point I had set in the morning. I raised the set point to 70F and kept it on cooling mode. This means there is ice water inside a coleman cooler that I pump around through the BREWHA jacketed fermenter. If ferm temp jumps to 71F pump will turn on and circulate 40F water.

Temps are rising again in Charlotte after 2 days of daytime highs in the mid 50's. Rest of week to be in 75 to 85F. So, I don't worry much about fermenter temp dropping in those kind of ambient temps. The fermenter sits in my detached garage. It is insulated with foam rubber and bubble wrap. overnight temps going to be 55 to 65F next few nights. Should stay warm enough in garage to not be concerned about having to heat the fermenter.

For folks who have 5 gallon car boys they can sit in a repurposed refrigerator with temp controller, this information is not so valuable. But if you are working with a BREWHA and only have single temperature control, heating or cooling, it can help you to better plan your fermentation period.

This is day 10 of the fermentation of this 7.3% Belgian Golden Ale (Strong?, not so much). I will keep it fermenting in the upper 60's 4 more days, then cold crash, per advice I picked up listening to a Beersmith podcast with Chris Graham of MoreBeer. He suggested fermenting ales at a constant 68F throughout the entire fermentation. But if you want, he advised, you can cold crash near freezing in order to help clear, brighten, the beer. I'm going to see how low I can keep it. It will be hard to go that low. I can get the water bath down to the upper 30's, but I would guess I can only get the fermenter down to 50F at best. And it is too large and heavy for me to roll into a refrigerator. Picture below.

Ron8

IMG_0876.jpg
 
unbelievable. I keep thinking I have to poke the yeast with some heat to get it to clean up the fermentation by-products. So, Thursday, April 27th I did so again only to have it go much further in temp than I expected. And it was brew day + 12 on the 27th. A couple days passed and the fermenter temp had dropped down to around 64. I thought I had better keep it up a bit to be sure the yeast clean things up. And again it rose from 64 F at 6 PM when I added some heat: raised set point to 67. Ferm temp went from 64 to 71 by time I went to bed, only to see 79 on the Ranco controller at 8 AM today.

And to remind everyone the gravity reading on Tuesday, April 25 was 1.004. So, next time I do this recipe I will keep the system on cooling for first 2 weeks, just slowly ramp after first 2 or 3 days of rapid air lock activity. After it slows to a crawl I will begin to raise a degree at a time up to 72 or 74, maybe 75 as Pappers did. To be sure I don't go way above the optimum for Monastery or Abbey yeasts (again, the optimal range for these yeasts is 65 to 72 F.

I do not think these excursions to the upper 70's are going to mess up the beer taste as they occurred after the active fermentation was over. But still I am uncomfortable at the upper 70's. Could be it is not a problem. If anyone has an opinion, I would greatly appreciate your thoughts.

Planning to keep the temp around 74 to 74 next couple days then push it down as far as I can get into the 30's for a week to see if I can clear the beer before kegging. Total time in fermenter will be 3 weeks.

Ron8
 
Now into brew day + 16 days. Fermenter temp remains 71 to 73 without adding any heat since last post. Will keg this 5 days from now. Don't think I will attempt to cold crash. Would rather have this time for any further conditioning. Not too concerned with clearing this beer. May attempt in future batches.
 
Just learned a lot about Belgian golden strong ale by listening to an old Beersmith podcast interview of Michael Mraz. Highly recommend to anyone interested in brewing this style. Mraz is 2 time California home brewer of the year winner. He started his own craft brewery in 2013 shortly before the interview which aired in January 2014. Lots of good nuggets of advice on how he brews his BGSA.

- Ron8
 
Reply to myself, with how it turned out. Batch 14 and I have myself and 3 others enjoying it. Only one has been able to identify the taste: has a cotton candy taste. Others: Yum! Used 3 pure pitch White Labs Monastery, WLP500, and one White Labs Abbey Ale. Styrian golding for bittering and Czech Saaz at 20 minutes for aroma. I'll be brew a variation on this in a few weeks.
 
This is going to be my first Golden Strong - thanks!

Regarding the starter. How much DME did you use? More than usual (200g/2L total) due to high gravity? And did you pitch the entire 2 x 1/2 gallon starters? Wondering if it will affect the overall feel...
 
This is going to be my first Golden Strong - thanks!

Regarding the starter. How much DME did you use? More than usual (200g/2L total) due to high gravity? And did you pitch the entire 2 x 1/2 gallon starters? Wondering if it will affect the overall feel...

I don't remember the amount of DME, but it would have been 'normal' for a starter, so somewhere around a wort with an OG of 1.040. I usually decant most of the liquid off the starter before pitching it, rather than pitching the entire thing. If I've given myself time, I put the starter in the fridge to help the yeast drop out making it easier to decant.

Good luck with your brewday!
 
Many thanks for the quick reply. Great, I'll plan for 24hrs (without stirplate), then overnight in the fridge, taking it out when brewing starts.
 
This beer, brewed collaboratively with my oldest son, took first place in its category and third place BOS at the 2013 Door County Beer Festival Homebrew Competition in Bailey's Harbor last Saturday.

Key to this style is that its devilishly high potency is masked by its dry, light drinkability. To achieve that, we used plenty of yeast (I made two 1/2 gallon starters of Abbey and Belgian Golden Strong WL strains), mashed low, added 2.5 lbs of sugar, and ramped the fermentation temp up over time. The hops are just some we had on hand, they are only there to add some bittering.

http://www.singingboysbrewing.com/Cherub-Nectar-Belgian-Golden-Strong.html

11 lbs Pilsner Malt
2.5 lbs Cane Sugar
1 lb Extra Light Dry Malt Extract
1 lb. Wheat Malt
1.25 oz. Mt. Ranier hops (6% aa) 60 minutes
1 oz. Challenger hops (5.2% aa) 60 minutes
Irish Moss
Belgian Golden Ale Yeast
Abbey Ale Yeast

Original Gravity: 1.074
Final Gravity: 1.004
ABV: 9.5%
Bitterness: 32.1 IBUs
Mash: 148 F for 60 minutes, single infusion, batch sparge
Fermentation started at 60F, ramped up to 76F

Is the Dry malt extract added at the start of the boil?

Thanks!
 
Is the Dry malt extract added at the start of the boil?

Thanks!

No, I usually add DME around 15 minutes (left in the boil). Unlike when I first put this recipe up, I now don't use DME for this recipe, due to a change in equipment. I increase the Pilsner to compensate.
 
No, I usually add DME around 15 minutes (left in the boil). Unlike when I first put this recipe up, I now don't use DME for this recipe, due to a change in equipment. I increase the Pilsner to compensate.

@pappers_ do you mind posting your updated recipe?
 
I believe this will be the basis for my first attempt at a golden strong. First time I tasted one was about 4 years ago, and I remember how impressed I was by the beer! Just now feeling the urge to attempt it in the next month or so. Can't wait!
 
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