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Old 06-17-2013, 02:21 PM   #1
greggor
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I have a general question about the strains of Brett
Listening to The Brewing Network show about Brett they discuss 4 main strains of Brett 1. Cereveasees 2. Bruxellensis 3. Claussenii 4.Anomalus
It this accurate?
As I look at strains available from both Wyeast and WLP I see a strain called Berttanomyces lambicus; Is this just a trademarked term of one of the above identified strains (if so which one) or is this a fifth strain? Just trying to sort out what is available stran wise. If there is any detailed info available on the web please point me in that direction.



 
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Old 06-17-2013, 04:16 PM   #2
sweetcell
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there is no "Brett Cereveasees". there is Saccharomyces cerevisiae, AKA "normal" brewing yeast.

wikipedia lists the following brett species:
B. anomalus
B. bruxellensis
B. claussenii
B. custersianus
B. lambicus
B. naardenensis
B. nanus
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brettanomyces)

note that anomalus and claussenii have identical mitochondrial DNA, so some folks lumps them together as one species. not all on that list are used for brewing.

and just as there are wide variations within S. cerevisiae (belgian abbey, US-05 and hefewiezen yeast are all S. cerevisiae but behave very differently), there is variation within a given brett species. it's false to think that "brett B is brett B". folks here often speak of having a preference for Wyeast vs. White Lab's version of a given yeast - because they're different. our knowledge of brett is a LOT less than that of sacc.


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What hops should I grow? Looking for cheap honey?
- Drinking: 2 blends of a rye sour: ECY20 + ECY34, local sour cherry kriek #2
- Fermenting: NHCPA (BPA and APA made with ingredients from Baltimore)
- Aging: brett'ed Belgian blond on raspberries, sour blond on second-use cherries, English Barleywine (half on brett), 3726 saison w/ brett x2 (dregs mix & Lochristi), GNO 3724 saison w/ brett mix, sour cherry mead, acerglyn, and a few other sours...

 
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Old 06-17-2013, 04:40 PM   #3
MrOrange
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I have also read that B. Lambicus is a strain of B. Bruxellensis
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Old 06-17-2013, 04:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrOrange View Post
I have also read that B. Lambicus is a strain of B. Bruxellensis
"The genus Dekkera can be used interchangeably with Brettanomyces when describing species; Dekkera are the telemorphic (spore-forming) versions of the Brettanomyces species. Dekkera claussenii differs from other Dekkera species in its lack of blastese and inability to ferment lactose. [3]

Examination of the Mitochondrial DNA of the genus Brettanomyces showed identical genomes in three pairs of species: Dekkera bruxellensis/Brettanomyces lambicus, Brettanomyces abstinens/Brettanomyces custerianus and Brettanomyces anomalus/Brettanomyces clausenii. It is suspected that the genus Dekkera has similar taxonomical redundancies." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brettanomyces_Claussenii)

if lambicus is indeed a strain of bruxellensis, that would really show how much variation there is within a species.
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What hops should I grow? Looking for cheap honey?
- Drinking: 2 blends of a rye sour: ECY20 + ECY34, local sour cherry kriek #2
- Fermenting: NHCPA (BPA and APA made with ingredients from Baltimore)
- Aging: brett'ed Belgian blond on raspberries, sour blond on second-use cherries, English Barleywine (half on brett), 3726 saison w/ brett x2 (dregs mix & Lochristi), GNO 3724 saison w/ brett mix, sour cherry mead, acerglyn, and a few other sours...

 
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:06 PM   #5
TimT
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I believe Brux and anomalus are the only species recognized nowadays by taxonomists (if that even matters). Wyeast and whitelabs tack on the other names to differentiate and perhaps just out of the past in a case or two. Which is a mess really as the wy brett L. is completely different that the white labs brett L. Both are brux AFAIK, so is brett trois.

 
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:05 PM   #6
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Dekkera anomala and Dekkera bruxellensis are the 2 species that all of the commercially available (at the moment) Brett strains fall under.

For example, within Dekkera bruxellensis you have both B. bruxellensis and B. lambicus (and others). Within B. lambicus you have the Wyeast variant and the White Labs variant. Although labeled the same, the two variants are very different. Much like the variants of Saccharomyces Cerevisiae result in the difference between California Common yeast and Scotch Ale yeast.

Brandon Jones (Embrace the Funk) and I have talked to some labs and are putting together a Brett Strain Guide.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levifunk View Post
Dekkera anomala and Dekkera bruxellensis are the 2 species that all of the commercially available (at the moment) Brett strains fall under.

For example, within Dekkera bruxellensis you have both B. bruxellensis and B. lambicus (and others). Within B. lambicus you have the Wyeast variant and the White Labs variant. Although labeled the same, the two variants are very different. Much like the variants of Saccharomyces Cerevisiae result in the difference between California Common yeast and Scotch Ale yeast.

Brandon Jones (Embrace the Funk) and I have talked to some labs and are putting together a Brett Strain Guide.
Are custersianus, nanus, and naardenensis seperate species?
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:19 PM   #8
levifunk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNGabe View Post
Are custersianus, nanus, and naardenensis seperate species?
yes. I will be publishing the guide this evening.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levifunk View Post
yes. I will be publishing the guide this evening.
awesome, and thanks for your work. can't wait to read it. if not too much to ask, please post a link to it in this thread.
__________________
What hops should I grow? Looking for cheap honey?
- Drinking: 2 blends of a rye sour: ECY20 + ECY34, local sour cherry kriek #2
- Fermenting: NHCPA (BPA and APA made with ingredients from Baltimore)
- Aging: brett'ed Belgian blond on raspberries, sour blond on second-use cherries, English Barleywine (half on brett), 3726 saison w/ brett x2 (dregs mix & Lochristi), GNO 3724 saison w/ brett mix, sour cherry mead, acerglyn, and a few other sours...

 
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:18 PM   #10
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Correct, Brett is the anamorph of Dekkera, so it's the one we're interested in as brewers. Known species are B. bruxellensis, anomalus, custersianus, nanus, and naardenensis. Think of those in the same way as you would S. cerevisiae (standard brewer's yeast), bayanus (champagne yeast), etc. Then there are strain names, like "Trois" or "Lambicus" for different brux strains, "Clausenii" for an anomalus strain, same idea as the various S. cerevisiae strains we typically use. Seems we've just begun to scratch the surface, and is made all the more interesting if the genetic complexity of brett as compared to sacch translates to a wider variety of flavors and properties.



 
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