hard cider my first brew some help please - Home Brew Forums
Register Now For Free!

Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Cider Forum > hard cider my first brew some help please

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-12-2007, 03:07 PM   #1
disschord
Recipes 
 
Oct 2007
Posts: 11


Hi im trying to make some hard cider with apples from my garden.
I have just finished pressing the Apples i have 8 litres of juice.
i'm told by a freind there is no need to add sugar or yeast as there is natural yeast on the skin of the Apple, and sugar in the fruit is this true.
also my juice is in a sealable bucket should i seal it or leave it loose.

Any other help qould be great im a complete noobie.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2007, 03:09 PM   #2
bradsul
Flyfisherman/brewer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
bradsul's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Sep 2006
Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,898
Liked 32 Times on 25 Posts


You can use the wild yeasts but for myself I think I'd rather use a yeast I know will end up making a tasty product. In that light I would add a crushed campden tablet for 24 hours to kill the wild yeast, then pitch a simple ale or wine yeast. You will want to leave the lid on your bucket, but don't actually seal it, otherwise you'll blow the lid off the top.

You don't need to add sugar unless you want to. The sugar in the apples is what the yeast will eat, however adding some sugar will add flavour (depending on the type) and will up the alcohol content.
__________________
Brad
Canadian Brewers Unite!


Projects: Sylvania Kegerator Conversion, Tower Cooling, Grain Milling Station

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2007, 03:21 PM   #3
Evan!
 
Evan!'s Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2006
Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 11,863
Liked 88 Times on 73 Posts


You have options.

First off, you probably don't need to add sugar; my first cider is fermenting right now, and it had an OG of 1.059 without any sugar added.

Second, yeah, you can take a chance with the natural yeast and bacteria, but I wasn't that confident in it coming out okay. I tried it a few years back before I was brewing...just left it in a jug on my counter. It just turned rotten and green. So this time around, I added campden tablets (1 tab per gallon of cider, crushed, mixed with warm water, added to the cider in the fermenter) and let that do its thing for 12 hours. Campden tabs kill any wild yeast and bacteria that is in the cider. I then added pectic enzyme (1/2 tsp per gallon of cider) to get rid of pectin haze. So roughly 24 hours after first adding the campden tabs, I finally pitched my yeast: White Labs English Cider yeast.

You could leave your bucket lid loose; fermentation will expel CO2, and it needs somewhere to go.

Good luck!
__________________
MOSS HOLLOW BREWING CO.
Aristocratic Ales, Lascivious Lagers


.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2007, 04:50 PM   #4
psi3000
Recipes 
 
Feb 2007
Posts: 82
Liked 2 Times on 1 Posts


Isn't it bad to add campden tabs to stuff you want to ferment? This is what I was told by a local brewshop. That by adding campden you actually pasteurize it. Making it hard or impossible for the yeast to live. Shouldn't you wait until the fermentation is done? Also I have read that pectic enzyme is not that great to add either, as it takes away some of the needed food for the yeast. I would love anyone to comment as I have both of these and am eager to use but do not want to ruin anything.
thanks

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2007, 08:18 PM   #5
disschord
Recipes 
 
Oct 2007
Posts: 11

thanks for the help guys.
if i go with the natural yeast method how will i know if its gone bad

also do i need to rake off at any point and ifso how do i do it


 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2007, 08:22 PM   #6
Evan!
 
Evan!'s Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2006
Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 11,863
Liked 88 Times on 73 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by disschord
thanks for the help guys.
if i go with the natural yeast method how will i know if its gone bad
You'll know. Don't ask. Just smell.
__________________
MOSS HOLLOW BREWING CO.
Aristocratic Ales, Lascivious Lagers


.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2007, 09:15 PM   #7
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jun 2006
UP of Michigan, Winter Texan
Posts: 69,751
Liked 8020 Times on 5604 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by psi3000
Isn't it bad to add campden tabs to stuff you want to ferment? This is what I was told by a local brewshop. That by adding campden you actually pasteurize it. Making it hard or impossible for the yeast to live. Shouldn't you wait until the fermentation is done? Also I have read that pectic enzyme is not that great to add either, as it takes away some of the needed food for the yeast. I would love anyone to comment as I have both of these and am eager to use but do not want to ruin anything.
thanks


This is bad, bad, bad, advice! If you are using fresh fruit or juice (unpasteurized), you have to use campden. If you don't, you will allow the live yeast/bacteria/vinegar bacteria/mold spores to ferment your juice or cider. Some people are willing to do this and that's ok if that's what you want to do. Sometimes the fruit will rot before it will ferment if you don't add yeast, though.

But, most people want to kill off the nasties and start fresh with an introduced yeast. Wine yeast (and cider yeast) are not inhibitied by campden/sulfites. That's why it's used in winemaking. 50 PPM is a good number to shoot for, but in the absence of a tester, a good estimate is one campden tablet per gallon. Pectic enzyme is an enzyme that breaks down pectins- doesn't have a thing to do with "food for the yeast" and is 100% completely wrong advice.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2007, 10:42 AM   #8
disschord
Recipes 
 
Oct 2007
Posts: 11

thanks for all your help im going to try the natural yeast method and see how it goes.
any idea of time scale for fermentation or final specific gravity im looking for

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2007, 11:40 PM   #9
sudbuster
This ain't my first rodeo....
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
sudbuster's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jul 2007
Western Arkansas
Posts: 4,030
Liked 283 Times on 219 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by disschord
thanks for all your help im going to try the natural yeast method and see how it goes.
any idea of time scale for fermentation or final specific gravity im looking for
You have 8 liters of home-pressed apple juice. You claim to be a complete newbie. You decided to ask about it on HBT. (Good Choice!) Brad, Evan and Yoops, all experienced, competent brewers and wine-makers (especially Yooper Chick with wines and ciders) offer to help by giving sound, scientificly based advice, but,yet, you are going to ignore their advice and let it rot. (not a cool decision, IMHO... ) I've been told that "Experience is a hard Master, but, you never forget the lesson." Good Luck.......

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2007, 12:56 PM   #10
disschord
Recipes 
 
Oct 2007
Posts: 11

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFarmer
You have 8 liters of home-pressed apple juice. You claim to be a complete newbie. You decided to ask about it on HBT. (Good Choice!) Brad, Evan and Yoops, all experienced, competent brewers and wine-makers (especially Yooper Chick with wines and ciders) offer to help by giving sound, scientificly based advice, but,yet, you are going to ignore their advice and let it rot. (not a cool decision, IMHO... ) I've been told that "Experience is a hard Master, but, you never forget the lesson." Good Luck.......

i see your point isit to late to add campden tablets and yeast?

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Want to brew hard sparkling pear cider from scratch, will this process/recipe work? thatjoshguy Cider Forum 25 08-22-2015 03:58 PM
My first hard cider mrfocus Cider Forum 4 11-12-2010 02:48 PM
Hard Cider homebrewer_99 Cider Recipes 11 11-12-2010 02:41 PM
Brew Shop closed. Best yeast to buy for hard apple cider brew? britishbloke Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 8 01-10-2007 03:48 AM


Forum Jump