

08022013, 11:04 PM

#51

Sep 2007
, MD
Posts: 94
Liked 4 Times on 3 Posts

What efficiency do you usually get this way? Can you post a recipe? Thx



08072013, 04:37 PM

#52

Mar 2013
Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 606
Liked 61 Times on 57 Posts

I will soon. If I remember, I will do it tonight when I get home. Busy right now



08132013, 09:26 PM

#53

Mar 2013
Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 606
Liked 61 Times on 57 Posts

Apricot Berliner Weisse
Volume  5.5 gal
Original Gravity  1.036
Final Gravity  1.011
ABV  3.2%
IBU  3
SRM  3
Mash Efficiency  84%
Grain Bill
4# Red Millet 2L 1.021ppg
2# Buckwheat 3L 1.014ppg
1# Flaked Corn .7L 1.037ppg
3# Dried Apricot
4oz Cane Sugar
4oz Maltodextrin
Mash
70 min Double Infusion
Rest @ 150F for 60 min 1.25qt/lb
Mash out @ 170F for 10 min
Batch Sparge
I mash hopped it with Topaz and fermented like a 10 min boil Berliner weisse.
Sorry for the delayed response. Hope this recipe helps. I made this a few months ago. 84% is an outlier for me. Normally its around 74%.
Another point.... don't use dried apricot. They kick off sooo much sulfur. Also, I made the lacto starter with millet.



08182013, 05:36 PM

#54

Feb 2012
Oakland, CA
Posts: 936
Liked 75 Times on 45 Posts

I've got a question for you: it seems like unless you get your ppg numbers for the grains from a lab, it would be impossible to know them unless you know your efficiency...but if you don't know the ppg of your grains, how can you determine your efficiency? I.e., it's easy to calculate one quantity if you know the other, but if both are unknown, then you can only come up with a curve. I.e. if you know you put in 7 lbs of grain, and got 5.5 gallons of 1.036 wort, you plug that in to the formula for efficiency:
OG = (((grain points)*(pounds of grain))/(gallons of water))*efficiency
So, plugging in the numbers we know:
36 = (((gp)*7)/5.5)*efficiency
So, we can solve for grain points by making this a function of efficiency:
gp = (198)/(7*efficiency)
Meaning that at 100% efficiency, your grain points are ~28.28, whereas at 50% efficiency, they're ~56.57. Of course, realistic ranges for grain points are anywhere from 14 to 34, and realistic efficiencies are 95% or less; knowing that puts some bounds on what the actual numbers could be. Assuming gp = 34, your efficiency would be 83%; since efficiency can't exceed 100%, that makes 28.28 the theoretical minimum gp. So we at least know the grain points are in the range of 28.28 and 34, and the efficiency is at least 83%. But we can't know for sure what the actual values are, correct?
(Note that this formula only works for a single grain type or for the average grain points of all the grains; it gets more complex if you want to use multiple grain types with different unknown grain points values).



08212013, 01:40 AM

#55

Mar 2013
Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 606
Liked 61 Times on 57 Posts

These numbers are based on my experience, other's, and also of course malt analysis sheets. Truth is, I have yet to account for system losses or slight measurement inaccuracy. I'm in the process of upgrading my system. Once that is done, I can take more exact brewhouse and mash efficiencies. If I did SMaSH batches, I would have more accurate numbers.



08212013, 06:32 AM

#56

Feb 2012
Oakland, CA
Posts: 936
Liked 75 Times on 45 Posts

Can you tell me what you mean when you say the numbers are based on "your experience"? I have to wonder about malt analysis sheets for GF grains, since I don't know what sort of mash procedure the labs use, and a barleystyle mash may not yield accurate numbers.
I'm not trying to badger you, I'm just trying to figure out how to put nonarbitrary numbers into my recipes. I think you're the only bloke on here who's giving firm numbers, and I'm curious if you can give me a solid source for 'em.



08272013, 08:54 PM

#57

Mar 2013
Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 606
Liked 61 Times on 57 Posts

The malt analysis comes from White labs. I assume they use an ASBC lab mash. It involves a very fine crush and many small temperature steps. Should be pretty accurate.
The malt analysis shows an DBFG of 32.5%. Short math: 46*.325= 14.95 = ~1.015 ppg. This is insanely low. I don't believe their malt is that bad. Maybe in the beginning of their malting program. Somewhere on here I found a fellow homebrewer doing an analysis of gluten free grains. CMC red millet was one of their attempts. They came up with 1.021 ppg. If I can find the post, I will link it.
In reality its probably only 1.0171.019. I like 1.021. It fits into my recipe plan pretty accurately. After knowing this, I was able to figure out other numbers. I understand how this method is flawed. One incorrect measurement amplifies the further down the line you use it, etc.
My background is in electronics engineering not anything to do with chemistry. Doing what I can with my instrumentation.
By the way, the DBFG on CMC buckwheat was 89.5%. That's like 1.041 ppg! I doubt I can get anywhere close to that.
The more important numbers are DP/Alpha enzyme and soluble protein. That is a whole other rant. Hope this helps and makes sense.



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