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Old 05-20-2013, 08:48 AM   #1
LandoAllen
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Nov 2012
Fort Wayne, Indiana
Posts: 155
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Has anyone ever fermented cider under pressure (like in a keg sealed up with a pressure release valve) described here:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/clos...chnique-44344/

I think this would be awesome to try with cider especially with a clean ale yeast fermented at low temps!

 
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Old 08-25-2016, 03:30 AM   #2
Wholeycider
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Aug 2016
Posts: 7

Hi!

Ive been making cider for about 2 year now. Here's the recipe;
2 quart plastic bottle of store bought apple juice cocktail ($0.99)
1 cup sugar
3/4 tsp fermax yeast nutrients
1/4 tsp pectic enzyme
Shake well
Add champagne yeast and close the cap on tight.
Burp once every 3 days for the first week, and then once a week for 1.5 months
Reduce pressure slowly until you can open it without it erupting and add a few drops of melolactic bacteria, then put the cap back on tight and let it sit for another 1.5 months.
Then rack it and enjoy
1.075 start and 1.004 finished gravity; a little over 8%

Its nicely carbonated, crispy but not tart, and very refreshing. Infact its about the only adult beverage i drink anymore. Ive never had a plastic bottle explode even once and i usually have about 40 bottles going at any one time.

What do the internet brew gods think of this recipe and resulting brew?

Your comments are humbly appreciated

 
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Old 08-25-2016, 03:35 AM   #3
Wholeycider
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Aug 2016
Posts: 7

(I wrote this while enjoying the brew described above cheers mates)

 
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Old 08-27-2016, 11:59 AM   #4
CKuhns
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Oct 2015
, MN
Posts: 130
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What do the internet brew gods think of this recipe and resulting brew?

Your comments are humbly appreciated


Hardly a God - More like a Minion!

The varied and unique ways we go about producing a beverage we enjoy is what I love about this Hobby.

I say, if the end result is something you like and you can drink it then DO IT!
__________________
Remember the Rules....
1. Have Fun 2. Don't Die
In that order!

 
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Old 08-28-2016, 01:01 AM   #5
bernardsmith
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Jul 2012
Saratoga Springs, NY
Posts: 1,848
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What is the advantage of fermenting under pressure? Doesn't CO2 inhibit yeast activity so if the SG is higher rather than lower won't the pressure (the presence of more CO2 than normal) create problems for the yeast and so result in fusels and perhaps hydrogen sulfide and other stressed produced chemicals?

 
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Old 08-29-2016, 09:22 AM   #6
madscientist451
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May 2014
Bedford, Pa
Posts: 1,571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardsmith View Post
What is the advantage of fermenting under pressure?
That's a good question.
Some answers can be found over on the Brulosophy web site:

http://brulosophy.com/2015/04/27/und...ent-results-2/

The article included this:
theoretical advantages:

– The ability to ferment beer at warmer temps without increasing off flavors.
– Overall reduction in yeast ester and fusel production.
– Less vigorous fermentation with reduced krausen, meaning less headspace is necessary.
– Due to the closed fermentation, aroma compounds remain in the beer and aren’t blown off.
– CO2 generated from fermentation can be used to naturally carbonate the finished beer.



The experiment was done with a hoppy beer and the results were inconclusive. It would be interesting to try with cider though.
Also interesting that there weren't any negative aspects to fermenting under pressure, no off flavors were detected.

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Old 08-30-2016, 01:11 AM   #7
Wholeycider
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Aug 2016
Posts: 7

I hear you. There is information on the web that points in both directions, and I'm glad the dialogue above brings both parties to the table in an obviously well informed manner. One side is that the excess c02 will inhibit the yeast and retard the must. The other is that it helps fermenting under warmer conditions and build up its own natural carbonation. The cider i make tests and tastes rather strong in terms of alc % and in my honest opinion tastes much better than the sugary store stuff. My hypothesis is that there is a fine line between pressure and c02 level that will yield the desired goldilock zone. It could be that the plastic bottle caps can only take so many psi before they start hissing and thus balance the psi and then also the C02 level on its own. It could be my general rule of thumb to always burp, and perhaps even shake and burp, if the bubbles on the surface start petering out. I do this knowing the risk of oxidation, yet because it is pressurized and the pressure given off is co2 is oxidation a real concern? Would the letting off of excess c02 and shaking up o the must if the fermentation is visibly inhibitted by the c02 thus help and even re-energize the fermentation? It seems to do just that, but i have not conducted an A+ scientific study on this. More like trial and error. I have plans to conduct a truly conclusive experiment to test this hypothesis compared to a 5 gallon carboy fermentor with a double water airlock let sit for the same amount of time with the same ingredients. Alongside this will be a store bottle with the same ingredients, locked tight and set aside. Thirdly will be the recipe above done to the T. Fourthly will be done in same fashion as thirdly yet will use my general rule of thumb described above. I'll include Pictures with grav readings a well. What are all your thoughts on this?

 
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Old 08-30-2016, 02:17 PM   #8
bernardsmith
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Jul 2012
Saratoga Springs, NY
Posts: 1,848
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I do not have a chemistry or microbiological background but there seems to me to be a large amount of peer reviewed published literature that argues that the presence of CO2 inhibits the ability of yeast to ferment sugar and inhibits their ability to bud and reproduce. That and the additional problem of forcing yeast to work in a high pressure, low pH environment looks like the result must be reduced alcohol production, and increased stress in the yeast. If there are claims here that neither effect is observed in home brewing then I would think that that is an important and original finding that would seem to up-end what was thought to be known about yeast.

(see, for example, Jones and Greenfield, Effect of Carbon Dioxide on Yeast Growth and Fermentation, Enzyme and Microbial Technology, 1982, 4(4) 210-223 or Chen and Gutmains, Carbon dioxide inhibition of yeast growth in biomass production, Biotechnol Bioeng, 1976, 18(10) 1455-62

 
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Old Yesterday, 06:50 PM   #9
MindenMan
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Aug 2012
Carson City, Nv
Posts: 2,406
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If you wanted to not have to babysit your soda bottles, there are caps that have pressure vents built into them for this exact purpose. PM me if curious about these "Brew Caps."

 
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