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Old 05-17-2013, 05:00 AM   #1
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Default First Starter Question

I am making my first starter for a Carmelite Tripel(partial mash). I am using a one gallon glass jug. Here is what I have done so far. 3 QTS water, 9oz(weight)DME and a pinch of nutrient boiled for 15 minutes. Going to cool and put in jug and pitch the yeast. Everything I read says I only need two quarts. The guy I talked to at my LHBS said bigger is better so I went with three quarts. Will I be ok using all three quarts?


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Old 05-17-2013, 05:38 AM   #2
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Short answer, yes.

Longer answer, I think you got some bad advice. In general, any advice that gives one size fits all or this ALWAYS works is probably not the best. In the case of a Belgian, bigger pitch rates will reduce the replication phase in your beer and reduce the typical Belgian esters and character. In fact, many brewers intentionally UNDER pitch Belgians and other yeast forward styles to enhance their character. Remember, yeast are living things and each strain is different, so how could a one size fits all answer be true ?


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Old 05-17-2013, 06:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demus View Post
Short answer, yes.

Longer answer, I think you got some bad advice. In general, any advice that gives one size fits all or this ALWAYS works is probably not the best. In the case of a Belgian, bigger pitch rates will reduce the replication phase in your beer and reduce the typical Belgian esters and character. In fact, many brewers intentionally UNDER pitch Belgians and other yeast forward styles to enhance their character. Remember, yeast are living things and each strain is different, so how could a one size fits all answer be true ?
Good answer Demus.
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Old 05-17-2013, 06:07 AM   #4
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Thanks Demus! I am still waiting for the temp to come down. Should I take a quart out and only go with two or one QT or is it too late for that? My OG on the recipe is 1.081. I still need some quantity of a starter right?
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:03 AM   #5
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Thanks Demus! I am still waiting for the temp to come down. Should I take a quart out and only go with two or one QT or is it too late for that? My OG on the recipe is 1.081. I still need some quantity of a starter right?
You have not told us the use by date of the yeast so it is difficult to advise accurately except to say you need around 277bn cells.

Assuming you have no stir plate and are not intermittently shaking the starter then 3L of starter would be required to get that number of cells in one starter.
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Old 05-17-2013, 11:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el_caro

You have not told us the use by date of the yeast so it is difficult to advise accurately except to say you need around 277bn cells.

Assuming you have no stir plate and are not intermittently shaking the starter then 3L of starter would be required to get that number of cells in one starter.
The package is WYEAST. It is 3522 Belg Ardennes. The MFG date is 14 MAR 13. I did the math last night and I believe it's at about 55%. My plan is to give the jug an occasional swirl a couple times a day to reach that 277bn number.
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewerBS

The package is WYEAST. It is 3522 Belg Ardennes. The MFG date is 14 MAR 13. I did the math last night and I believe it's at about 55%. My plan is to give the jug an occasional swirl a couple times a day to reach that 277bn number.
I haven't read any definitive studies on the matter, but in my experience refrigerated yeast doesn't lose viability as fast as the pitch rate calculators assume. My guess is they are "conservative" in their assumptions so you may have more than 55%. Since there's no way to actually measure this I generally cut the age in half on the calculator and have had great results. As for your Belgian Ardennes, I'd go 10 to 15% below the recommended rate of 270 billion, say about 230. This will still require a starter, but of a smaller size...
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demus

I haven't read any definitive studies on the matter, but in my experience refrigerated yeast doesn't lose viability as fast as the pitch rate calculators assume. My guess is they are "conservative" in their assumptions so you may have more than 55%. Since there's no way to actually measure this I generally cut the age in half on the calculator and have had great results. As for your Belgian Ardennes, I'd go 10 to 15% below the recommended rate of 270 billion, say about 230. This will still require a starter, but of a smaller size...
The calculator I used put me at about 210 billion cells so I think I should be in good shape. That's at 55%. I have learned a bit more in reading overnight and today. I plan on brewing on Sunday will report back as I go through my process. Thanks all for the guidance!
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:27 AM   #9
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Little off topic but ive read that this is a slow starting strain... don't get worried if its not chugging away withing the first 24 hours.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:16 PM   #10
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That's good to know. My starter took about six hours to start and not 36-40 hours later is all done. Gonna brew tomorrow.


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