Coldbreak Brewing Giveaway - Open to All!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Judges' comments - Creaminess?
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-09-2013, 11:28 PM   #1
beertroll
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Shaftsbury, VT
Posts: 299
Liked 32 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 23

Default Judges' comments - Creaminess?

I just got my scoresheets back from my second competition (Greg Noonan Memorial, South Burlington, VT). I entered a dry stout, and my average score was 33.5, so I'm fairly pleased. It's certainly quite a bit better than my first competition results (mid to low 20s - meh).

The main thing one of the judges found lacking was a lack of creaminess, which left the finish a little harsh. I can't disagree with that assessment; there is a little bit of a bite on the end, and the carbonation mouthfeel is more sharp than I'd like. However, I'm not sure how to correct that in future batches. Ok, that's not entirely true; I'm sure that carbonating with a nitrogen system would make the beer super-creamy, but that just isn't in the cards. The judge suggested adding some calcium chloride to the boil, which I intend to try. Is adding CaCl to the boil going to give me different results than just upping the amount I add to my mash water (I use distilled and add 1tsp/5gal)? Is there anything else I can do to smooth off my texture?


beertroll is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2013, 12:04 AM   #2
Mb2658
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: , NE
Posts: 413
Liked 36 Times on 26 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Adding Calcium Chloride will shift the chloride/sulfate ratio and will make the hop character less bitter. As far as the difference between adding it to the mash or the boil, I dunno. I always add mine to the mash. For a more creamy character you might add some oats or flaked barley.


Mb2658 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2013, 12:19 AM   #3
forstmeister
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,211
Liked 181 Times on 137 Posts
Likes Given: 32

Default

Oats, flaked barley, or Carapils will help with mouthfeel. I added 8 oz of carapils to my last batch which I just tapped today. It made a big difference in the mouthfeel.
__________________
I drink (homebrew), therefore I am (gassy)
forstmeister is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2013, 12:34 AM   #4
beertroll
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Shaftsbury, VT
Posts: 299
Liked 32 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 23

Default

I'd considered adding oats, but was worried about sweetness. The recipe is already about 11% flaked barley, so I'm wary of adding too much more (though maybe this is unfounded?). Carapils seems like the safest route, though I do like the smoothness of oats...
beertroll is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2013, 02:12 PM   #5
highgravitybacon
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 918
Liked 214 Times on 150 Posts
Likes Given: 156

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beertroll View Post
I'd considered adding oats, but was worried about sweetness. The recipe is already about 11% flaked barley, so I'm wary of adding too much more (though maybe this is unfounded?). Carapils seems like the safest route, though I do like the smoothness of oats...
Oats don't add anything sweet. They mash and ferment just like anything else.
highgravitybacon is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2013, 07:34 PM   #6
daksin
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
daksin's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 4,269
Liked 307 Times on 264 Posts
Likes Given: 338

Default

With 11% flaked barley, you should be good there. Oats don't add sweetness (use flaked oats or instant from the store) unless you're getting golden naked oats, which are a specialty malt, sort of a cara-oat.

Try a higher mash temp. I wouldn't add any sugars like maltodextrin or lactose- start with higher mash temp, and maybe some oats. Oats+flaked barley+high mash temp should give you a really nice smooth creamy mouthfeel that almost begs to be put on nitrogen, but don't worry about that for competition, you can't really bottle a nitro beer. If you're not getting it after that, check out your water.

What's your recipe? If you're concerned about adding gravity, you could take out half your flaked barley and replace it with flaked oats, depending on how much you're using now.
__________________
I can't be arsed to keep up this list of what's in the fermenters, but hey, check out the cool brewery I own!

twitter.com/2kidsbrewing .. facebook.com/2kidsbrewing .. 2kidsbrewing.com
daksin is offline
luhrks Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 07:07 PM   #7
luhrks
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 339
Liked 20 Times on 17 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Sounds like you need either a higher mash temp, or a lower fermentation temp to get a more creamy mouthfeel.

The other thing to consider is reducing the astringency (perceived bitterness from grain). When do you add your non-mashable grains to your mash? Personally I don't add anything above about 80-100L to the mash until mash out/vorlauf.
luhrks is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 07:56 PM   #8
beertroll
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Shaftsbury, VT
Posts: 299
Liked 32 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 23

Default

As entered:
7# Maris Otter
1# Flaked Barley
1# Roasted Barley
0.25# Chocolate Malt
2oz Fuggles @ 60
S-04

Mashed at 150 for 75 minutes, batch sparged.
Ambient fermentation wobbled between 59 and 61. OG was 1.043, FG was 1.012.

I really liked the flavor (dark coffee with a hint of chocolate), and the dryness was about perfect to my taste. I like the idea of holding the dark malts back until the end of the mash.
beertroll is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 08:04 PM   #9
Shockerengr
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 453
Liked 23 Times on 20 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

As for the calcium chloride mash vs boil - the difference comes in because it affects mash pH based on the added calcium- since you're starting with a dark beer and using DI water - you probably aren't needing to lower the mash pH anyway (and may actually need to raise it). the chloride portion that was suggested can be added to any part of the process - even in the finished beer if you want to try it.

As for creaminess - it's probably a mixture of either adding proteins (i.e. oats) or reducing tannins (adding roast / dark grains to the end of the mash) It's very much a mouthfeel thing, so you want to becareful that you aren't adjusting flavor too much to achieve mouthfeel.
Shockerengr is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 08:06 PM   #10
luhrks
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 339
Liked 20 Times on 17 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Mash the next batch at 154.


luhrks is offline
Weezy Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Creaminess jknapp12105 General Beer Discussion 16 07-27-2012 04:38 AM
Adding creaminess to a stout Naked_Eskimo All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 15 10-01-2010 12:48 AM
How to keep the creaminess? Saint Aardvark General Beer Discussion 7 02-22-2010 02:11 PM
Will Oats Increase Sweet Stout Creaminess? GroovePuppy Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 10 01-30-2009 05:01 PM
Any BJCP Judges here? Stevorino General Beer Discussion 9 04-30-2008 02:51 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS