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Old 05-10-2013, 11:23 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by dmiller224 View Post
My og was 1067 so i think it's doing pretty good... Should I let it ferment longer you think?
At 1.030, it isn't done.


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Old 05-11-2013, 02:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper

At 1.030, it isn't done.
I was planing on going at least 2 weeks maybe ill do 6 weeks total instead of 4 and do the diactyl rest week 4 or 5


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Old 05-11-2013, 04:43 AM   #13
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I was planing on going at least 2 weeks maybe ill do 6 weeks total instead of 4 and do the diactyl rest week 4 or 5
Did you do a proper sized starter?
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Old 05-11-2013, 05:04 PM   #14
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Did you do a proper sized starter?
I believe so yes I stepped up my yeast twice and was using a stir plate. I achieved 250 ml of yeasts I checked it with mr.malty should of been more then enough
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:51 PM   #15
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+1 on the diacetyl test. I brewed my first vienna lager 8 days ago. krausen collapsed a few days ago so I checked gravity and it's down to 1.017 (went fast, big starter and temps were slightly high for a lager 49-52). I tasted a sample and it was good, no butter taste at all. But I did the test (heat to 150 for 20 min, let cool and then compare to unheated sample) and there was a definite butter flavor, obviously different from the unheated sample. So heating really works to convert the precursor compound (alpha acetolactate) to diacetyl. So it's a little late for a diacetyl rest, but I'll try anyway. I've placed the fermenter at 69F and will let it sit a few days. Going on vacation so hopefully 4 days isn't too long.
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:56 PM   #16
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+1 on the diacetyl test. I brewed my first vienna lager 8 days ago. krausen collapsed a few days ago so I checked gravity and it's down to 1.017 (went fast, big starter and temps were slightly high for a lager 49-52). I tasted a sample and it was good, no butter taste at all. But I did the test (heat to 150 for 20 min, let cool and then compare to unheated sample) and there was a definite butter flavor, obviously different from the unheated sample. So heating really works to convert the precursor compound to diacetyl. So it's a little late for a diacetyl rest, but I'll try anyway. I've placed the fermenter at 69F and will let it sit a few days. Going on vacation so hopefully 4 days isn't too long.
No, that should be fine.

One way I taste diacetyl before it gets "buttery" is by mouthfeel. Diacetyl in large amounts tastes buttery or like butterscotch, but in smaller amounts (when a diacetyl rest could be very effective), it presents more of a slickness in the mouthfeel. It also feels oily on the tongue and teeth. If you perceive that in the mouthfeel during an SG reading, you know you have to do a diacetyl rest.

The heating sample works great, as you've found, if wondering if a diacetyl rest is necessary- but some people are genetically unable to taste diacetyl anyway believe it or not! So doing a diacetyl rest at 75% of the way to FG is never a bad idea, and it can be done as a matter of course in lagers without any negative consequences.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:21 AM   #17
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I think I just made my first beer with diacetyl in it (well, first with un-broken-down and still-noticeable diacetyl, anyway!). It definitely has a bit of buttery flavor and the oily mouthfeel. The weird thing is, it is a Saison that I fermented for three weeks, starting around 68 and ramping up to 79 after two weeks, then leaving there (room temp) for a third week. I figured this third week at the high temp would be the D rest needed to avoid it. I used Safbrew T-58, properly rehydrated... But pitched at room temp (78*) into 60* wort. I'm thinking that may be the problem/cause? Thermal shocking of the yeast that killed some off (the one dry packet should have been enough based on the yeast calc i used) or stressed them enough to produce more diacetyl than they could effectively clean up? OG was 1.060 and SG was 1.012 (for 80% attenuation, which wasn't apparently affected by the possible yeast shock/death/underpitch, as that yeast lists 75% attenuation).

I went ahead and bottled at the three week point, adding enough sugar to get 3.5 Vol CO2 (I figured if the yeast hadn't cleaned up the diacetyl after that time and temp, keeping it for a week or so more wouldn't help much... Anyone have the opposite experience? Also, I'd never tasted diacetyl before, and wasn't sure - or more probably was just in denial! - and had everything ready and set up to bottle anyway, so just went ahead and did it - maybe a mistake?). I just tried one (after only 11 days carbing at room temp and one day in fridge - I know that's less than the three weeks and 2-3 days each I'm aiming for, but just wanted to check)... The carbonation and colder temps do lend a reduction in the taste of the diacetyl, but after it sat and warmed/flattened for a bit, it was still very apparent.

Do you think more time bottle conditioning (there are still active yeast in there, carbing it up, obviously) / aging will help reduce the oily buttery yuck-flavor, or should I just chalk this one up to my first "off" batch (its only my fourth, so I'm just happy I made good beer up til now!)? Is there anything else I can do to make it better at this point? Or for future batches (beside trying to match my yeast temp to my wort temp better at pitching, as noted)? It is still drinkable, just obviously flawed... I wouldn't pour it out - but would force myself to drink them as punishment to learn the lesson so as to not (hopefully) do it again!


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