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Old 04-25-2013, 12:11 AM   #11
lowtones84
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Hops are supposed to inhibit lacto, yeah, but it still seems awful fast to me. I also had mine in a glass carboy and never saw anything funky goin' on, though it was only in there for 3 or 4 weeks.

 
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:44 AM   #12
Calder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reverendj1 View Post
Based on just our two experiences, I would guess maybe hops slow down lacto? I dunno. I have no real experience with purposefully getting lacto.
Hops will inhibit growth of lactobacillus. Different strains of lacto have different levels of resistance to it. Some Lacto cannot stand any hops at all.

Lacto can be done in 24 hours. There are 3 phases to Lacto. The first is the lag stage, which can be from a few hours to a few days. During this time the lacto gets used to the medium. The second stage is the growth stage where it multiplies and creates the lactic acid. This is basically an exponential growth stage and can double it's population in as little as 20 minutes. Doubling just a few times and it is done. Generally I assume that once it starts to sour, it is done in about 24 hours. The third stage is dormancy - it's done.

 
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:15 AM   #13
reverendj1
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Well I'm drinking the beer made from the second runnings right now. It was exposed to the exact same conditions at the exact same time and I might be picking up just the tiniest bit of sourness. I'm not entirely sure though, as I've never had a commercial gruit before, so my tongue may be playing tricks on me with the lack of hops and over analyzing it.

 
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:26 AM   #14
smokinghole
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Only real way to know is through some microbiology. With a lack of hops you most certainly could have picked up lacto. Certain strains and certain species are more vigorous than others, and the same goes for etOH and hop tolerance. I have been flirting with L. plantarum in wort this week and it soured from 5.5pH to 2.98pH in less than 7 days. That was unhopped wort. I will play with hopped wort this week, and do daily pH monitoring to see how fast it sours.

Last year I had a dubbel with 35ibus and 8%abv sour in less than three months from brew to drinking. It is only at about 3.8pH though in comparison to my ambit yeast fermented saison at 3.0pH.

So it can happen quick and I think with out hops it can happen even more quickly. Another factor to consider is a bacterium other than lacto. But as I said the only real way to tell is through one micro work.
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:17 PM   #15
reverendj1
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This is bizarre. I had another one after another week, and it was less sour. It was still pretty sour, but definitely less than when I first had one. Everything I've read says sourness doesn't go away. Hmmm. I wonder if it's my mind/tongue playing tricks on me, since I was expecting it to be sour this time.

 
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:46 PM   #16
lowtones84
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I don't think sourness goes away, but my experience has been that the edges can get softer with certain brews. Perhaps just more time for flavors to blend or whatever, I really don't know.

 
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:30 PM   #17
ardyexfor
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Or maybe the infection is in your bottling. Some worse than others?

 
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Old 05-03-2013, 02:24 PM   #18
reverendj1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowtones84 View Post
I don't think sourness goes away, but my experience has been that the edges can get softer with certain brews. Perhaps just more time for flavors to blend or whatever, I really don't know.
Ah, so what you are saying is it was at 100 actual RSU (ReverendJ1 Sourness Units), and although it tastes like it is now 75 RSU, that is only perceived RSU? It is still at 100 RSU and the flavors melding made it seem less. That makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardyexfor View Post
Or maybe the infection is in your bottling. Some worse than others?
I wouldn't think so. My cleaning/sanitization process was the same as every other time I've bottled. I've never had an issue, and it was in every bottle so far (~8).

 
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:08 PM   #19
lowtones84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reverendj1 View Post
Ah, so what you are saying is it was at 100 actual RSU (ReverendJ1 Sourness Units), and although it tastes like it is now 75 RSU, that is only perceived RSU? It is still at 100 RSU and the flavors melding made it seem less. That makes sense.
Precisely

 
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