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Old 04-25-2013, 01:01 PM   #11
WhizardHat
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Skibb, that is some excellent information! Base malt as <50% of the grist!? That's insane! I didn't know you could do that. Do you think that contributes to the viscosity?

I have some additional information, second hand from a guy that kind of knows a guy that works at CCB, so take it for what it's worth, but it does seem to jive with some of the information we already have here:

Quote:
I was at the Florida Brewers Ball in Tampa this February and happened to meet the packaging manager for Cigar City, and he had one tip for getting the distinctive Hunahpu viscosity. He said that for Hunahpu they only use the first runnings from the mash until it drops to 17 Plato (~1.070 SG) and then the rest goes into other beers. According to him it makes for an expensive beer, but it has worked well for them. Judging from the taste I'd have to agree.
It seems to jive with what you and elixir were discussing above.

Not sure if I'll do this or not, that would make for a really long brew day!


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Old 04-25-2013, 02:48 PM   #12
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Humor me for a moment. Let's assume for a moment that the recipe used today is relatively unchanged from the recipe posted in the blog for a Mayan chocolate stout. That recipe seems to indicate that the mash tun is not emptied and refilled three times.

I'm just having a hard time understanding why using only first runnings would give a more viscous beer, or benefit the final product in a way that adding a few more pounds of grain to compensate for lost efficiency wouldn't.

And if we take that blog post to be truth, at 28# of grain, I think we're getting close. I did not adjust for loss of efficiency, so if I want a final product with OG 1.1, I will, in fact need to bump up the grain in the grist.


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Old 04-25-2013, 03:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhizardHat View Post
Humor me for a moment. Let's assume for a moment that the recipe used today is relatively unchanged from the recipe posted in the blog for a Mayan chocolate stout. That recipe seems to indicate that the mash tun is not emptied and refilled three times.

I'm just having a hard time understanding why using only first runnings would give a more viscous beer, or benefit the final product in a way that adding a few more pounds of grain to compensate for lost efficiency wouldn't.

And if we take that blog post to be truth, at 28# of grain, I think we're getting close. I did not adjust for loss of efficiency, so if I want a final product with OG 1.1, I will, in fact need to bump up the grain in the grist.
I'm guessing they cant fit enough grain in their mash tun to do it consistently that way.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
I'm guessing they cant fit enough grain in their mash tun to do it consistently that way.
Also, by not sparging you get the darkest color possible and the richest wort. From a viscosity/fermentability standpoint I don't believe this matters much - I think this is where the specialty grains come into play.

Quote:
Base malt as <50% of the grist!?
My guess is there are a substantial amounts of flaked barley/dark munich that help decrease the amount of the base malt. That being said, I still think the percentages of the specialty grains (specifically the roasted ones) are going to be very high (10+%).
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Old 04-26-2013, 03:10 PM   #15
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More from the CCB blog:

Post # 50:
Quote:
Capricho Oscuro is our first oak aged test batch. It is a blend and is currently aging on virgin oak supplied by Tony of Oldsmar Taphouse. Capricho Oscuro consists of a carefully planned blend of the following brews: Zhukov's Imperial Stout aged on toasted cedar, our American Imperial Stout, our American and English yeast versions of the imperial strength Double Nut Brown Ale, our Puppy's Breath Porter and (I forgot to add this in the original post) a smoky kiss of our Rauch Gott. The exact blend will remain a mystery, but the base is basically the porter augmented heavily with the American yeast Double Nut Brown followed by increasingly smaller amounts of the remaining beers. The ingredients log was unique to say the least.
What does this tell us:
  • Zhukov is aged on toasted cedar. Crazy right?
  • Capricho oscuro may be an early forerunner to Hunahpu.

Post#71
Quote:
We had been referring to Hunahpus as Mayan Chocolate Imperial Stout, but I decided to finally give it a more personal name and in Mayan myth Hunahpus gives cocoa to the Mayan people so I thought that worked well.
What this tells us:
  • Skibb's finding of the Mayan Imperial recipe discussion is an accurate early representation of Hunahpu.

Lastly, I am posting the version of the recipe that I will be making. As exact recipe's seem to be difficult to come by for this brew, and as I really don't have any interest in emptying and refilling my mash tun 3 times (what is true, what is folk lore?), I am venturing a little bit in my own direction. This recipe is certainly a tribute to Hunahpu, but is by no means a clone.

Some notes:
  • I have <50% base malt!
  • with a 67% efficiency, I can reach 11.5% ABV with 28.25# of grain. In post #51, Wayne says he uses 28# of grain.

Grain Bill
  • 14# 2 Row [49.6%]
  • 5# Victory [17.7%]
  • 3# Roasted Barley [10.6%]
  • 3# Chocolate Malt [10.6%]
  • 1.5# Flaked Oats [5.3%]
  • 1# C60 [3.5%]
  • .5# Flaked Rye [1.8%]
  • .25# Special B [0.9%]

Hops
2.75oz Summit @ 60


Stats

Batch Size: 5.5g
OG: 1.116
FG: 1.030
Est ABV: 11.5%
Color: 83.5 SRM
IBU: 82.2
Boil Time: 120 min
Est. Brewhouse Efficiency Assumption: 67%
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:45 PM   #16
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You hit the SRM mark! I was always baffled by that magical number over 80 for the SRM. I also noticed in a post it being mentioned that MZ was aged on cedar, I do beleive they wood age lots of beers, but they almost always have the base beer for sale as unchanged. White Oak Jai Alai for example, the base is very common but they do have different treatments of it. Same with MZ. I still have one bottle of MZ left from this year, trying to save it until october, we will see if I can manage, 6 bottles went way to quickly. I have a "Few" Hunahpu as well. I need to make a beer if not a clone, as viscous and black as it.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
You hit the SRM mark!
I don't know what kind of calculation Beersmith uses, especially since most SRM scales only go to 40 or 50, but I'd venture a guess that CCB was using Beersmith during their 5gallon pilot batches! I actually was having trouble with the SRM going too high, if you can believe that.

I envy your Hunahpu collection. I first had the opportunity to taste it about 6 months ago, and shortly after moved out of Florida. So CCB's beers are much harder to come by these days.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:08 AM   #18
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In the Sunday Session with Cigar City Wayne mentions he calculated the IBUs for Jai Alai with promash...dunno whether he uses the default hop utilization (I'm guessing probably not)
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:17 PM   #19
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I started listening to that podcast this morning. Wayne mentioned that CCB does not age Hunahpu over cedar. Good to know.
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:59 PM   #20
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I'm following this developing brew. CCB's Swinging Harry Tropical Quad is what got me absolutely hooked on what I call "nice" beer. And so to know that it might be possible to come close to cloning something like that(not similar in style, maybe, but similar in quality), is very appealing to me. Lead on...


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