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Old 04-22-2013, 10:39 PM   #11
cluckk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamies

A little unsure on where the tannins would be created from by just squeezing the grains. Everywhere I have read (and seen) on shows and articles by brewers say that unless you are squeezing with enough force to drive the temperature up or change the PH level of the mash you will not create any Tannins.

Possibly if tannins have already been created you would extract more of them, but it shouldn't create them. It would be nice to get a chemists opinion on this.
You are not creating tannins. You are extracting the ones that are already there.
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:25 AM   #12
mamies
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Sorry I should have rephrased that to be that you dissolve the tannins into the solution by having a higher PH which changes the component a small amount or by having a warmer solution.

Using that theory squeezing the bag would have a similar effect as to leaving the bag drain for a longer time. If anyone has any information to why squeezing extracts more tannins I would like to know. It might possibly help me brew better

 
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:39 PM   #13
CA_Mouse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamies View Post
Possibly if tannins have already been created you would extract more of them, but it shouldn't create them. It would be nice to get a chemists opinion on this.
Tannin isn't being created by squeezing the grains. Tannin already exists in the hulls before they are even modified. Squeezing the grains extracts them from the hulls. The same is true for mashing at too high of a temperature.

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Old 04-24-2013, 02:47 PM   #14
FatsSchindee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA_Mouse

Tannin isn't being created by squeezing the grains. Tannin already exists in the hulls before they are even modified. Squeezing the grains extracts them from the hulls. The same is true for mashing at too high of a temperature.

Mouse
I'm going to jump on this thread for a similar question about what I did to my specialty grains in my last brew:
I didn't squeeze them, but stirred them. Instead of putting them in a grain bag and tying it off and dunking to steep, I read somewhere else that you can get better (use/flavor/extraction?) out of them by having them in a lower volume of water (than recommended by the kit - Palmer says 1-3 qts per 1 lb of grain; I went down the middle with 2 qts for 2 lbs, or 1 gal total) and having them loose. So I put a 5 gal paint strainer bag in the bottom of my kettle, put the elastic cord around the top, and put the grains in loose after bringing the temp up to 155. S far so good, I think. But then I think I made a couple of dumb mistakes. First, the temp dropped to about 140 after adding the grains (makes sense since they were room temp, and smaller vol of water), so I turned the burner back on. And of course, although I turned it off by 155, the temp got up to about 165ish... Rookie mistake! Second, I stirred the water with the grains in it. I didn't squish/press any of the grains directly or purposefully, but just used a normal stirring motion multiple times during the steep. Afterward, I then lifted out the bag, let drain, then discarded.

Do you think either the slightly higher temp for a bit or the stirring of the loose grain would extract much tannins, from y'all's experience? Sounds like the temp might be the more important factor, based on the above discussion and what I've read. Should I have just left the burner off and let the temp cool from 140 while steeping, or is it important to try to keep it at 155 the whole 25 minutes? Thanks for any comments...
(I'm sure the best answer will be had once I taste it!)
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA_Mouse View Post
I don't know where you guys are getting your information, but squeezing the grains *will* extract tannins from the grains (just like squeezing a tea bag). This will lead to astringency in your beer. Since the OP said this was a kit, then he most likely was talking about the steeping grains, while they *can* add astringency, the small amount of grains should not cause much of a problem (which is what I said in the first place).

Mouse
From what I understand this is what used to be thought would happen but has since been disproved. You need a combination of heat and a certain Ph to extract the tannins. Many BIAB brewers squeeze the crap out of the grain bag with no ill effects.

 
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:52 PM   #16
brewit2it
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Squeezing will not increase tannin extraction since the tannins that are soluble will already be dissolved and the insoluble portion doesn't become more soluble by squeezing it. It is rising temp and especially rising pH that increases the amount extracted. Think of it this way, commericial breweries often grind the grain completely (giving 100% of the surface area of the husk exposed to sparge water) and have thousands of lbs of grain in a batch exerting magnitudes more pressure on the grain bed than what you can generate by squeezing with your hands. They don't have problem with excess tannin extraction because they control temp and pH.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:35 AM   #17
bennspriggs
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Hey everyone. Just wanted to say the brew is finished and just tried the first bottle. It is exactly the flavour I was hoping for! 100% spot on!! One issue... It's flat...
I have only opened one bottle so far. I used carbonation drops and its been sitting in my pantry for two weeks. Absolute Slightest fizz.. Any thoughts here?.. Should I re carbonation drop them?..

 
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:00 PM   #18
wailingguitar
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You won't be extracting tannins by squeezing. There is, in fact, a lauter system that is used by some huge breweries and now available to craft breweries that does whole mash extraction via squeezing. Rather than try to explain the process, here is a link to the company that is making the stuff for craft breweries.

http://www.iddeas.com/products/brewi...brewhouse.html
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