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Old 04-12-2013, 03:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waynepresley View Post
From what I understand, you won't extract much sugar, if any, from those specialty grains so your OG will not change much.
How did those batches turn out?
Wonderfully, but I could attribute that to doing a full boil or using my new wort chiller though. I changed/improved several things in addition to "mashing" my specialty grains, so I guess it was a poorly run experiment.

What I can say, though is that the kit called for 1.058 OG and mine measured at 1.062, which I though was directly correlated to my "mashing" process. Furthermore, I expected the "mashed" specialty grains to be unfermentables but the stout is finishing up at 1.018 (4 points below expected FG).



 
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Old 04-12-2013, 04:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waynepresley View Post
From what I understand, you won't extract much sugar, if any, from those specialty grains so your OG will not change much.
This is not true. You do get sugars for these grains. The potential of crystal malts is comparable to 2-row. They are less fermentable sugars than extracted from base grain, but do add to the gravity of you beer and do provide some fermentables.

As said earlier, they do not need to be mashed, although it won't hurt either. The sugars, flavor and other contributions will be the same as if steeped.



 
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Old 04-12-2013, 04:12 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by AnOldUR View Post
This is not true. You do get sugars for these grains. The potential is comparable to 2-row. They are less fermentable sugars than extracted from base grain, but do add to the gravity of you beer and do provide some fermentables.
Right- and it's not due to mashing them because grains like crystal are "premashed" so to speak by the way they are processed. But they definitely give you some gravity points.
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troglodytes View Post
As an experiment for my past couple batches I have been "mashing" specialty grains (crystal, roasted barley, chocolate) and to offset the possible increase to maltiness I've been doing late addition for dme and full scale boils to increase the bitterness.

Theoretically, was this experiment pointless, or does going through the mashing process with specialty grains increase OG, maltiness, flavor?
They'd have to contain the enzymes found in base malts & the like to get any conversion of starches to sugars. Some specialty malts like weyermann's rauchmalt have a small amount of diastatic power,but are better mashed with some base malt like 2-row. The other two have no diastatic power,& steeping for 30 minutes & sparging would be fine. But I do include them in the mash when brewing PM beers. And even though they do lend gravity points,their mainly long chain sugar molecules that add mostly color,flavor,&/or body.
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:28 PM   #25
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Good info. Next time I will simply steep anything but base malts and maybe crystal. I guess I just felt on my early batches that simply steeping the specialty grains was under-utilizing the grains.

 
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:35 PM   #26
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No worries,m8. This thread did inspire me to do some tweaking on my Pork Soda American rauchbeir recipe. I did it in BS2,comparing my recipe to 22B,other smoked beer,rather than American Dark Lager. I did up the rauchmalt & chocolate malt for more color & hopefully a nutty/chocolatey smoke flavor,kinda like those smokehouse almonds I used to buy at the store. Sounds good for pit bbq to me...
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:35 PM   #27
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There is a really cool thread of the tests run by nilo on fermentability of crystal.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/tes...1/index11.html

The 2 row standard was 80% fermentable.

C10 was 50% just steeped but rose to 78% when mashed
C40 was 40% just steeped but rose to 62% when mashed
C120 was 38% just steeped but rose to 53% when mashed

Extraction rates also all increased for the mashed crystal compared to the steeped.

I think that shows pretty conclusively that only some of the starch is converted in the roasting process and some but not all of the sugars created are nonfermentable. Of those nonfermentable sugars, enzymes can reduce some of them to fermentable sugars.

 
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:39 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOldUR View Post
This is not true. You do get sugars for these grains. The potential of crystal malts is comparable to 2-row. They are less fermentable sugars than extracted from base grain, but do add to the gravity of you beer and do provide some fermentables.
Thanks for the info! Good to know that I can gain a bit of gravity by using specialty grains.

 
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:49 PM   #29
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Quote:
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C10 was 50% just steeped but rose to 78% when mashed
C40 was 40% just steeped but rose to 62% when mashed
C120 was 38% just steeped but rose to 53% when mashed
But you have to keep in mind that crystal malts are a small percentage of the total grain bill. Even the 40% vs. 62% only represents around one gravity point in the finished beer.

 
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:07 PM   #30
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"But you have to keep in mind that crystal malts are a small percentage of the total grain bill. Even the 40% vs. 62% only represents around one gravity point in the finished beer."

Well, you can say that for any grain you are only using a lb of.

The point is that crystal provides sugar points. That sugar is a mix of fermentable and unfermentable. You can actually change that mix as well as the overall extraction rate by mashing the crystal. Those are all points that are often misunderstood on this and other boards.



 
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