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Old 04-02-2013, 12:28 AM   #1
lwcm
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Oct 2011
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After about an hour of scrolling and searching I'm throwing the question to the hive mind. I am looking for a diagram that allows me to plug into an existing 3 wire 240v 35A outlet (and use a gcfi spa panel so I don't....ya know: die or burn my house down) and power one element and a chugger pump. Planning for PID control.

Can anyone point me the right way?

Thanks in advance

 
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:39 AM   #2
stlbeer
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This ought to be a good diagram for what you requested. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/my-...-panel-361757/

You can always ask the OP for a parts list.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:28 AM   #3
lwcm
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That definitely looks pretty close to what I need. Thanks!

 
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:37 AM   #4
tyzippers
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Biggest problem you'll have is that a 3 wire 220 V outlet will not have a neutral. You will need a neutral for the 120V pump. Also, you need the neutral for the GFCI to work. If you look at the diagram PJ drew in the linked thread, he's using 110 line, neutral, and ground. So, that will be your first problem to solve.

Edit: Perhaps you already know this since you mentioned that the diagram is close to what you need. So I apologize if I've offended you.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:18 AM   #5
BadNewsBrewery
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The above is a valid concern - if you have a 3 wire outlet, but want to run 240 and 120, you'll need 4 wires to do it. It is generally considered a bad idea to have your ground server as the neutral, which is the only way you'd be able to get 120 and 240 off 3 wires. It increases your "burn the house down" probabilities. Consider getting a pump that will run on 240v if you can find it and forget about the need for 120 and you're fine.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:22 AM   #6
lwcm
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Crudbuckets.....dang old wiring. Well there is a 120v outlet about 5 feet or so away from the 240v outlet and they are on different circuits. So I guess for simplicity's (kind of) sake I'll just have to power the pump independently. Perhaps (not sure if this is possible) make the pump switch the 'gatekeeper' for powering the PID and element? Since the pump has to be submerged and so does the element to prevent...well destruction, that might be a handy anti-moron feature .

 
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:14 PM   #7
BadNewsBrewery
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You could definitely run the pump off the 120v circuit and the element / PID off the 240v circuit. This would probably be the best and easiest option, just make sure you keep everything nice and separate in the panel to eliminate the chance of shorting something out between the two circuits and you're good.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lwcm View Post
Crudbuckets.....dang old wiring. Well there is a 120v outlet about 5 feet or so away from the 240v outlet and they are on different circuits. So I guess for simplicity's (kind of) sake I'll just have to power the pump independently.
Each circuit should also be GFCI protected more for the "so you don't get killed" factor. Please keep that in mind!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwcm View Post
Perhaps (not sure if this is possible) make the pump switch the 'gatekeeper' for powering the PID and element? Since the pump has to be submerged and so does the element to prevent...well destruction, that might be a handy anti-moron feature .
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Your pump has to be submerged? Are we talking an aquarium pump? Otherwise, I'm a bit confused as to why you may want the PID power to be controlled by the same switch as your pump.

 
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:14 PM   #9
P-J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyzippers View Post
Biggest problem you'll have is that a 3 wire 220 V outlet will not have a neutral. You will need a neutral for the 120V pump. Also, you need the neutral for the GFCI to work. If you look at the diagram PJ drew in the linked thread, he's using 110 line, neutral, and ground. So, that will be your first problem to solve.

Edit: Perhaps you already know this since you mentioned that the diagram is close to what you need. So I apologize if I've offended you.
Note: Underlined statement is not true. The normal dryer and range circuits are set up with 2 hots (240V) and a Neutral. This is due to the fact that dryers and ranges have both 240V & 120V devices within them.

With that said, there is a method (technique) to set up a Spa Panel to accomodate our needs for a brewery with 240V & 120V devices while being totally protected with GFCI. (The Spa Panel) I've posted many images (plans) to accomodate this mission.

Also BadNewsBrewery's comment:
Quote:
if you have a 3 wire outlet, but want to run 240 and 120, you'll need 4 wires to do it
There is a way.

If the OP, lwcm, would like some more info.. Just say so.

P-J

 
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:22 PM   #10
lwcm
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Oct 2011
Lincoln, NE
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I would love more info P-J. I'm an electrical moron so every little bit helps. So I'd still be looking at: 3 hole dryer outlet ->GFCI Spa panel->PID and pump control box?

To attempt to cut down on my dumb newb questions I'm going to read some stickied electrical info and look through some of your other posts P-J.

On the pump: I'm a moron. I just meant that you couldn't run it dry. Was/am planning on getting a chugger pump.

 
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