Simcoe Hops - Home Brew Forums

Register Now!
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Hops Growing > Simcoe Hops

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-26-2013, 04:37 PM   #1
Margaret
Recipes 
 
Mar 2013
Posts: 2


Does anyone know where I can buy Simcoe hops rhizomes or plants? Scouring the internet and I'm not finding them.....then again I'm not known for being technologically advanced. It was all I could do to figure out how to join and post this.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 04:46 PM   #2
Hop_Hero
Recipes 
 
Apr 2012
Fallbrook, ca
Posts: 146
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts


Simcoe is still under a patent. In order to grow you must be licensed by the person owning the patent. There for growers cant sell the rhizomes.
__________________
Primary: Belgian Wit
Secondary: Nada
Bottled: Arrogant Butthole, Arrogant Butthole on Oak and Chinook, Rebel Red (West Coast Red)
Next: Barley Wine

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 09:27 PM   #3
HydroGeologist
 
HydroGeologist's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jun 2012
Saratoga County, NY
Posts: 53
Liked 9 Times on 7 Posts


You can attempt to do what few succeed at: I have read on here of accounts where people nurse a bine tip found mixed in with a Simcoe fresh hop order. I myself have never been so lucky.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 04:01 AM   #4
GVH_Dan
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
GVH_Dan's Avatar
Recipes 
 
May 2009
McFarland (Madison), WI
Posts: 1,102
Liked 255 Times on 183 Posts


If you try, do yourself a favor and don't talk about it. I know the penalty for growing that genetic material for sale is pretty stiff. I'm not sure what the law says about growing it for your own personal use but its not something I would do.

B-Hoppy Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 08:30 PM   #5
H22W
Recipes 
 
Apr 2012
Posts: 112
Liked 9 Times on 8 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by GVH_Dan View Post
If you try, do yourself a favor and don't talk about it. I know the penalty for growing that genetic material for sale is pretty stiff. I'm not sure what the law says about growing it for your own personal use but its not something I would do.
So long as the patented variety wasn't being used for commercial uses, pretty sure that there would be no issue for a lucky "Joe" with Simcoe in his backyard.

The patten owner wouldn't have suffered any monetary damages, so there shouldn't be anything to sue "Joe" for.

The pattern owner might likely have enforceable contracts with authorized growers and collect money from them if they were at fault for enabling "Joe" to get his hands on growable Simcoe.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 10:24 PM   #6
Carlscan26
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
Carlscan26's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jun 2012
San Diego, CA
Posts: 783
Liked 58 Times on 53 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by H22W

So long as the patented variety wasn't being used for commercial uses, pretty sure that there would be no issue for a lucky "Joe" with Simcoe in his backyard.

The patten owner wouldn't have suffered any monetary damages, so there shouldn't be anything to sue "Joe" for.

The pattern owner might likely have enforceable contracts with authorized growers and collect money from them if they were at fault for enabling "Joe" to get his hands on growable Simcoe.
Joe no longer buying Simcoe hops due to personal, unlicensed supply = monetary damage

B-Hoppy Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 10:34 PM   #7
day_trippr
Recipes 
 
May 2011
Stow, MA
Posts: 17,183
Liked 2934 Times on 2190 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlscan26 View Post
Joe no longer buying Simcoe hops due to personal, unlicensed supply = monetary damage
^ Yup.

And courts often do not limit damage awards to actual monetary damage...[edit: ref RIAA lawsuits]

Cheers!

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 03:14 PM   #8
H22W
Recipes 
 
Apr 2012
Posts: 112
Liked 9 Times on 8 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by day_trippr

^ Yup.

And courts often do not limit damage awards to actual monetary damage...[edit: ref RIAA lawsuits]

Cheers!

RIAA situation was an application of copyright law not patent law. The people they went after often had hundreds of songs and had also shared with others, which made it worthwhile to pay the attorneys to pursue damages.

Plant patents do little more than enable the patent holder the right to sue for the royalties. Only the reproduction of the plants is covered by a plant patent. The product of the plant (hops, beer) is not part of a plant patent. Growers licensed by the patent holder will often have a contract further restricting them. Maybe even having the area fenced and secure, maybe prohibiting them from reselling a licensed plant, etc, but those terms only apply to growers with such a contract.

Patented plants reproduce naturally all the time it is a natural thing they do on their own. You buy a patented bush and over time it naturally sends out a runner and spawns a new bush, you buy GMO corn and a couple seeds end up in the compost and grow a new corn stalk, a farmer plants a field of patented soy and birds carry a seed away and starts growing elsewhere. Patented plants reproducing naturally does not violate a patent, but might violate a growers contract. Plant patent holders cannot force you to prove each patented bush in your yard is licensed. Different situation for a commercial nursery as they are expected to have a traceable supply chain. Because it is so common for plants to naturally reproduce, the burden of proof for plant patents is high and virtually unattainable without being caught in the act (for an average Joe with a couple plants in his yard).

For further discussion, let's say average Joe admits to reproducing two Simcoe in violation of the patent (proof met). So what is the damages? Well hop farmers have to make a living while paying royalties... So I am guessing the royalty would be maybe $2 to $10 per plant. That is where is becomes impractical and unenforceable at $20 of total damages. Barely enough to pay for a couple certified letters, not enough to pay to travel to average Joe's home and see what he is growing, not enough to pay attorneys $300 or $500 dollars an hour.

Even if the court allows a damages multiplier, it still would never be enough for it to be good business sense.

In summary: lacking a commercial aspect, plant patents are impractical to enforce.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 03:16 PM   #9
H22W
Recipes 
 
Apr 2012
Posts: 112
Liked 9 Times on 8 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlscan26

Joe no longer buying Simcoe hops due to personal, unlicensed supply = monetary damage
Nice one, but no the actual hop cones are not covered by plant patents only the reproduction of plants is covered by a plant patent.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 06:15 PM   #10
Carlscan26
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
Carlscan26's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jun 2012
San Diego, CA
Posts: 783
Liked 58 Times on 53 Posts


I guess I'm a spirit if the law vs letter of the law guy. Just because they won't come after you doesn't make it right for you to cheat the source.

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I love Simcoe Hops....So Simcoe IIPA BeantownR6 Recipes/Ingredients 36 08-25-2014 05:51 PM
WTB: Simcoe hops Dupell13 For Sale 16 03-13-2012 05:20 PM
simcoe hops Charliehart1 Recipes/Ingredients 7 11-20-2011 03:46 AM
Simcoe Hops DannPM Recipes/Ingredients 2 11-10-2011 04:11 AM


Forum Jump